Horse weights

I am sure there are pros and cons to everything but just to shed some further light on this debate. Yes all the horses in Singapore are stabled on track so don't have to travel. Horses have to be in the holding area two hours before the race so this definitely gives them a chance to settle and also to have the blood tests done, weighed etc.
Just to give you an idea of published weights, I have attached a scanned copy taken from one of our racecards. Under the horses weight (to the left of the trainer) eg Flying Fulton 538w - that is his body weight when he won. Knight's Command weighed 513 when running 3rd. With this information and the current body weight being available, it gives you a good guide as to the horse's well being.
Also on the page you'll see a record of all the horses work for the past 3 weeks, their barrier trials etc so everything is totally transparent and available to the betting public. Another valuable addition to our racing is the installation of the Trakus system which is displayed during racing - those watching will see this at the bottom of the screen. Post race you can go onto the website and view the trakus for the respective race and this also provides you with sectional times.

Attached files BODY WEIGHTS.pdf (49.1 KB)Â

Lightyears ahead of anything else in the world, apart from maybe Hong Kong........

However, in South Africa I don't believe these things are possible. The officials cannot even run the most simplest of models, let alone orchestrate something like this.

Also the organizations with the money are not interested to invest but rather to declare dividends.

Good luck to all for getting what punters need, it will more than likely never happen!

It is amazing that in another betting sport , boxing , weights are known but it seems that the whole insider mentality has control of South African Racing - I wonder if any action by Trainers in South Africa could happen like it did in the UK last night?

As I have said I am happy to weigh my horses the day before the race as this is the only way that the weights will be available to everyone early. Now lets see who will battle with this. This is a list of trainers who do not have there horses on course or in Ahburton or Summerveld. Badenhorst, Campbell, De Kock( many of his top horses are stabled on the farm outside Summerveld) Erasmus, Govender, Kethro, Pappas are the one's I can think of off the top of my head. This is not taking into account the raider's if any. How do we get these horses weighed?

Debbie, how many horses are in training in Singapore? Is every single runner stable on course? And how many racemeetings per day/ week do you have? Is betting allowed off course? And if it is, how do you get the weights to the betting public placing bets off course? Do you have exotics, like Pick 6's? Are ALL weights disseminated before the start of the first leg? Or do the punters have to plan a few legs of exotic bets without weights? (with a 2 hour weigh in time, our punters would not have the weights for legs 5 and 6 before the start of the first leg)

So let's say we weigh our horses two hours before they race ( this would mean the horses for Races 1-4 would have to leave Randjes/ Clairwood at 6am, instead of 7am, for the Vaal/ Scottsville. Not leaving much time for the horse to have his breakfast on raceday!), how do you get the weights out to the punter in the off course tote say in Dundee, or Bloemfontein, or Plettenberg Bay? Do they have to go to the tote? Can they phone in to get a list of weights? Do you publish flyers or racecards and distribute for free, or even for a fee to justify the expense? How do the punters not on course acquire this information?

In Hong Kong, I have been told, they weigh the declared runners two days before the races. They then publish them in a racecard. And so I ask: would you the punter be willing to buy this racecard as an extra to your current racecard, which comes out 4 days before the race? Ort would you wait? If it is available online, how is the general public, and from what I understand the biggest contributor to the betting pools by sheer number, supposed to have access to this information? Sadly, most people do NOT have acces to textbooks, let alone internet access. With so many South African horses NOT stabled at official training centres, how do you propose that they are weighed? Do you install a scale at the racing operator or trainers cost? Does an official need to be present at the weighing of the horses? How do you propose we get trainers like Corne Spies (based on a stud farm midway between PE and CT) or even Leon Erasmus to submit accurate weights?

So once again I ask, *when* do you, the punter suggest the horses are weighed here in South Africa? 1 hour, 2 hours, 2 days? And what are your suggestions on *how* we distribute this information? On course? Flyers? Race cards? Online? Television? #brokenrecordhere

Perhaps it is the mindset in racing that is the industry's greatest inhibitor.
There is a significant difference between difficult and impossible ................one takes a lot of thought and planning to solve......the other is a showstopper.............as Tommy says,almost every problem in our racing, immediately becomes a showstopper.
To illustrate..........go into any Woolworths ANYWHERE in SA,this morning and the shelves will be stocked with fresh new stock..................................can you imagine the management of the logistics to achieve that.............difficult ..yes ...impossible no.
and unlike the theme of this thread,nobody made the customer responsible for the solution/s.

The definition of productivity is doing something today better than you did yesterday no matter how well you think you did yesterday.

i was watching a program on the Bush War and I was reminded of how much we improvised in the SADF - Now with
racing it's a major thing to get horse weights(even if they are done on course) - If Phumelela and GC tried i'm sure it could be done with ease we are not talking brain surgery but simple Logistics and a buy in from owners and trainers

this discussion reminds me of the reason given to me why trainers are reluctant to give information on their runners especially first timers to the public ...this was given by a trainer who is on the board of gold circle who said he has one or two owners who like to punt their first timers ....talk about defeating the objectives of what gold circle is trying to achieve which is to increase tote turnover plus it mustnt be implemented because of his owners......ruby have you any idea which is the biggest formguide that the MAJORITY OF PUNTERS USE?its called a daily newspaper thats what it is....they come out every day and space is given to horseracing so thats one place the weights can be given.... you see the main problem is you ruby are not a punter so you havent got a clue what a punter wants ....craig mdk weighs every runner plus where are thegov ender mdk horses trained the last time i looked they were at summerveld so maybe thats where the scale can be placed.....i will also ask byron and natie if they have their own scales....so we left with pappas kethro and camphell erasmus so tough takkie we exclude them....

So we are going to get this right here in South Africa, when it has failed in Australia and the USA?

Not ONE of you people has managed to come up with ANY suggestions to answer my questions!!! NOT ONE OF YOU!!! Lol! Not one. I have raised some VERY valid questions and points about the logistics of it, and not one of you has attempted to answer any of them.

This is NOT a debate about transparency, it is a debate on HOW it could be, and possibly why is *hasn't* been done!!!

I have asked repeatedly for suggestions on how you think we could achieve this very particular piece of transparency, and all you can say is: the trainers are just trying to fools us, to withhold information, pull the wool over our eyes, lie to us, not make the effort, middle us, not being transparent blah blah blah ad nauseum...

Give some *constructive* suggestions here, members of African Betting Clan!!! Stick your neck out and show us that we are incorrect in saying that this would be unlikely to work. Come on!!!

Pirates, I am very happy to answer any questions on my horses. Just looking at it from say Govenders side. Will he walk his runners over to summerveld the day before the race to be weighed? Both he and Mike's farm are approx 3kms return walk to the scale and back to their stables. Even I would be hesitant to do that the day before which is what is needed or you wasting your time. I agree that the more info we can give the punters the better but it must be right and safe for the horses and also not disadvantage them because they stay on a farm and have to be weighed. RF with all due respect, we cannot compare vegetables and horses. In some of the scenarios above the horse is being placed 2nd and who will be the 1st to complain when an odds on shot of Mikes runs unplaced because it got itself all wound up on the walk to Summerveld the day before to be weighed? Probably thinking it is going racing! If we can find the right way to do it which is fair to all horses and trainers, then most trainers will be behind it.

ruby do you know they sent people to the moon 50 years ago ?in natal we have 3 major training centres where i would say 90 percent of the horses are based AND ARE TRAINED ON THOSE TRACKS even if they might be living off limits ...most racedays in natal have 8 to 9 race programs with an average of 12 to 14 runners so lets say we are looking at 110 to 120 horses competing per meeting ....so approx 30 horses per centre would have to be weighed .....at clairwood and ashburton the horses are stabled very close to the training track where the scale would be placed and in clwds case the scale is already there so i dont see a distance problem ...as for summerveld i will take 1 to a 100 mdk weighs all his runners himself and also sends his horses to the track on most mornings so either way his runners are covered...i will find out later abt whether govender has his own scale....i would want them weifghed 4 days before they race and this in fo can then be then disemenated to the press for inclusion in daily papers which is used by the majority of punters plus it could be put up at all totes and bookmaking outlets....there are other types of social media this could be dissemenated by websites sms email facebook etc.....remember punters would be looking for a big change in the weight of a horse ....the info could also be passed on on raceday by presenters at tellytrack and on course as well....these are just some quick thoughts of mine and im sure it could be improved...