Horse weights

*troll at work*

I'm not going to get involved too heavily here but I'm just going to say the following:

All you guys are aware that I ahev been for a punters association from the word get go but am unfortunately not able to take part......makes my wishes a little redundant I guess, HOWEVER.

I think everyone is misunderstanding each other here.

Ruby is not saying she thinks its a BAD idea to weigh horses, she is simply stating that it is logistically difficult to achieve.

I have been reading some pretty insulting posts from loyal members here, people who are passionate and should not (in my view) be treating people in the industry with such contempt......

Say to me whatever you want, I can take it, and most of you know that I have nothing but the love of the game at heart here, but to call Rubyclipper names simply because she is trying to inform us of the daily workings of a racing barn, I fear is perhaps a little uncalled for.

Use it, dont' use it I don't really care.

Maybe some can remember that weights used to be taken at KZN tracks + publicised in the racecards but I believe they were done away with as there was no real increase in turn-over for the effort. Open to correction
Ex-jockey Gary Molloy used to be in charge of the weigh-ins

TH i couldn't agree more - it is enlightening to hear from all the industry players how certain aspects affect them. I don't think the industry leaders have ever worried to get everyone's (stakeholders in the industry) input and feedback with regards to important issues that affect the wellbeing of the sport. This forum is the only platform that facilitates this kind of discussion, and bring to the table constructive and real input, indirectly, you are currently voicing your worries on 'the union for punters' - this is where it happens, right here on this forum. Ruby, it is difficult to call for union of punters - it has been tried countless times in the past but endeavours and mandates (good ones) have been stumped time and time again. I'm talking out of my own experience and witness of about 20years. And there are clanners here that will testify the same.

The only way is to try and change the industry leaders' outlook - but first, to get them to unite and take accountability for the wellbeing of the WHOLE industry as a sport. If you read some other posts on this forum, you will see this has been discussed over and over again - where does the buck stop = with PHUMELELA, GC or the RA - who is going to take the lead and pull the monies together to bring about systemic changes such as these?? Unless this unification happens, the buck is just going to be continued to be passed from A to Z. And yes, listen to the clanners who claim the business model - punters are indeed voting and showing their confidence in the product and conduct of the industry, with their pockets!! and rightfully so! the more that happens, the more chance we have of the top guns having to work together for the greater good, because they will have to or face extinction (except of course for Phumelela, who will make millions on the soccer pools).

The only way for this sport to move forward is for Phumelela to be delisted and taken private by people who care for this industry.........

Nuff said!

CHIPPY Wrote:

---

> Maybe some can remember that weights used to be
> taken at KZN tracks + publicised in the racecards
> but I believe they were done away with as there
> was no real increase in turn-over for the effort.
> Open to correction
> Ex-jockey Gary Molloy used to be in charge of the
> weigh-ins


Chippy I would not expect turnover to increase just because horse weights are used. It is a process of transparency and info that will keep existing punters in the game and show new punters that racing tries its best to give you a fair chance to win without insider knowledge that will get turnover to increase. Perhaps you could ask Gary if he thought it was worthwhile or not as I found it very usefull. Maybe you could tell us how many horses were injured while he weighed them and if that is the reason the practise was stopped? Also when did it happen and how?(on course or off - raceday or not?)

At the time that the weights were used in Natal and Cape i punted at Bruma and many of us would wait to HEAR Stan or Laff calling out the weights before placing a bet - Now I don't listen to what the guys say because I can study form as well as they can (as can any punter). The horse weights were a valued added service which added integrity to racing. I can tell you that I as a punter was never asked if I used them or not - perhaps others were asked at the totes?

Tommy i think you should reread Ruby's comments and compare them with Debbie's who shows how it works and not how it fails. Ruby provides many reasons why it won't work but feels that if Punters can get the operators to institute it again then she'll have to comply I suppose? I say again customers don't have to form action groups if they are unhappy - they complain or just leave - I don't send petitions to my local plumber when his service is bad i just reach for the Yellowpages - The problem is that Phumelela thinks it's dealing with mindless addicts who will not leave the industry - They are leaving in droves and who is to blame? Perhaps in the words of Rubyclipper it's the " bitter little men wailing about their woes on an internet forum" that have caused punters to leave. I remember similar comments about punters from another "insider' Shezi. Yes Tommy, Ruby has given some an insight to the industry and for some that knowledge is scary if that is an industry norm(which I know is not the case having inside knowledge of many stables in Gauteng).

I have made money backing my own horse when his weight was in the zone so i know it's not a fairy tale.

Spoke to a few trainers and they all say that they happy to weigh their horses but all horses must be weighed and not just a percentage. If we take out worrying about the exotics then the fairest is the old way as they walk onto the course. TH is right, RC is just showing everyone the problems with getting the weights and has never said she wont weigh or is worried about the transparency side.

Tommy you got it way wrong,there is only one person who treated anyone with contempt on this thread

FFS,doesn'nt anybody read...................RC's comments about punters who fit the the SA "I want" syndrome.........her comments re "do you want to know what I feed them"............."does anybody know how hard this job is".......and now she is only trying to help?..........give me a break!

Thank you Craig. Have you seen this new Trakus system that has been installed at many overseas courses? It is something quite exciting, with a huge amount of information collected from each race. These include: times, split times, distances travelled by each horse during the race, average speed per split etc. Now that system has been proven overseas. Wouldn't this particular source of information be a *much* better addition to the current information offered in form guides? It would be printed in time for people to STUDY and not just make a quick, last minute, adjustment to what they've already studied.

Google it Mr Hawaii - now this is a system you punters should put forward to the racing operators to install! Put their money into a proven system that is flourishing worldwide. Not into a system that has failed in Austraila, USA, UK and Europe, and seeing as the scales are stadning dusty at all KZN racecourses, here in SA too.

But if you won't stand together as a group....

Ruby it is not my job or any punter's job to tell the operator about new initiatives it is their job - And your facination with getting punters to group together is tired - We are not a trade union - Even Telkom calls me to ask about their service(as do the banks, outsurance etc) Now perhaps if Phumelela contacted it's customers they would find out what we need or don't need(they found out quickly about Turkish and Italian Racing when the pools were so low)

Your idea that its"you punters" shows that you think punters are another species- This is not a game of "us and them" it's about keeping the game on the level and attracting new parties .

Oh my word...........can't we see the difference between information pre-race and post race ...........just to explain: the one is used to try and determine what might happen ......the other records what did happen............and yes both are useful, as discussed on other threads.
There is no point in debating with an idiot..........they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience!