How good does this make Ebony Flyer?

She is to my mind no doubt the best around at present, but is she a champion like Empress Club was, let alone Horse Chestnut? In that context I cannot use the word - yet. Not one of the placed horses in the July has won a major race outside of his own age group, and it was something of a bunched finish. She is undoubtedly a terrific filly, but is she quite as phenomenal as her fan club is making out? I have my doubts. The July has to produce at least one winner every year, but that in itself doesn't automatically make a champion in the stricest sense of the word.

Oh, I thought you used the word "champion" in a Sporting Post article you wrote, maybe i'm losing my mind :S

This poor IGUGU will have to sing the National Anthem in Greek before some people will give her the acolade of Champion.

Fcuk champion I think she is a fcuken superstar after winning the july, she can now become a world champion, I can tell you now after she wins in dubai then people will be talking about how she never race against american fillies, fcuk the american horses, the stakes are there so if they got balls they must travel like igugu and take her on. I'm not an igugu fan but I've seen good fillies in my short punting career and the 3 that won the july were ipi , DD and igugu , there have been others that were good but couldn't even win the july with the lowest weight like hoeberg, river jetez circle of life and so on

She will be champion three-year-old filly. Whether Ebony Flyer is or was a better 1600m horse means nothing, Igugu will win a championship in her category because she achieved by far the most of that group through the season - and because every category has a "champion" every year. That does not mean every winner of every category every year is a champion in the true sense of the word. She stands out above her own age group now that Ebony Flyer is on the sidelines, but look at some of the Equus "champions" we have had and tell me they were really champions.

I have never said that Ebony Flyer is a true "champion", either. When either of them runs to a rating of 120 then I will call them a champion in the stricter sense of the word, but the notion that any horse that wins the July (a handicap, no less) must be a champion is ludicrous. That, more than anything else, is what sets my teeth on edge. It is patently absurd.

"She will be champion three-year-old filly" ? Not horse of the year also?

mr hawaii Wrote:

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> "She will be champion three-year-old filly" ? Not
> horse of the year also?

She will be, and she'd get my vote without a doubt if I was part of the decision making process. But we are talking about different things when we talk about "champions" as opposed to Equus Awards "champions." We have several of the latter every year, but the former come along rarely.

Igugu is a champion in every sense of the word.She can only win, what else she must do. I dont think much of EF yet.

It's incredible to me that in some quarters they rubbished Igugu's chances in the lead up to the July. She then toyed with the opposition and still some detractors refuse to pile up the accolades apparantly because she only beat an average bunch of the best horses we have in SA...all year. Oh well, at least they will name her horse of the year.

How many three year old fillies have achieved, the triple tiara, Woolavington, July (55kgs) and horse of the year in the same year (back to back)? Rhetorical question I know. There is also the small matter of the R4m in stakes she picked up for her owners along the way. R2m more than any other horse.

Make no mistake, symantics aside, imho (and with respect to all who don't agree) this filly is a champion! and will always be a champion in my eyes.

Considering her achievements to date and that her achieving a rating of 120 is inevitable and arguably only requires a passage of time, her to remain sound and a bit of luck in running... my respectful question to Magiclips is... If she were to stop racing tomorrow, in the years to come, will you include her in the same sentence with Horse Chestnut, Empress Club etc.?

Magic dont you think the trainer would know how good she is??

He says shes a champ..you and Karel obviously disagree..well then put it in a printed published article why she isnt a champ??

Magic could you check your stats and see how many three-year-old fillies have won the July ?(genuine question)

She won a HANDICAP F.F.S.

Champions win at all costs at level weights. So You Think is a champion, WOrkforce is a Champion. I also had her at circa 112 and possibly she can go higher BUT at this stage if she bumped SO You Think and Workforce and only received 3 pounds she would be TAILED OFF