How good does this make Ebony Flyer?

Not forgetting Perana who he said was the best of all time. I know a chap who was betting for Delpech. He was taken to the cleaners by the midget who had it to nothing anyway.

Anybody who punts for jockeys are fcuked in their mind, these poison dwarfs will bury you

bad company Wrote:

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> Anybody who punts for jockeys are fcuked in their
> mind, these poison dwarfs will bury you

Agreed BUT at the end of the day we all want to make money, we don't punt for fun. I know jockeys who are consistent in their tipping, if they feel the horse has a chance they say so and 7 out of 10 times they win. If the horse is soupmeat they say so and don't encourage a bet. You have a problem when the jockey says punt the horse to make me 10k and the horse is 2/1 and it does not win then you fcuked and sad to say their are a few out there who people on ABC and other sites talk so high about.

Were getting of subject,were also getting on a great jockeys back,so now were running down the horse and the jock><

hibernia Wrote:

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> Were getting of subject,were also getting on a
> great jockeys back,so now were running down the
> horse and the jock><

Thought about that when typing but just couldn't stop myself Hibs and my post was not in reference to Delpech.

The heck with ratings and blah blah.... She is still our baby, our champion, our superstar..

hibernia Wrote:

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> easy Wrote:
>

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>

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> > She won a HANDICAP F.F.S.
> >
> > Champions win at all costs at level weights. So
> > You Think is a champion, WOrkforce is a
> Champion.
> > I also had her at circa 112 and possibly she
> can
> > go higher BUT at this stage if she bumped SO
> You
> > Think and Workforce and only received 3 pounds
> she
> > would be TAILED OFF
>
>
> or even River Jetez

You are kidding I hope. River Jetez couldn't win the July carrying 50.5kg as a 4yo (1.1l behind), 51.5kg as a 5yo (3.75l behind) and 55kg as a 6yo (5.85l behind).

delete this thread. Replace with an IGUGU thread.

nagboy Wrote:

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> hibernia Wrote:
>

---

>

---

> > easy Wrote:
> >
>

---

>
> >

---

> > > She won a HANDICAP F.F.S.
> > >
> > > Champions win at all costs at level weights.
> So
> > > You Think is a champion, WOrkforce is a
> > Champion.
> > > I also had her at circa 112 and possibly she
> > can
> > > go higher BUT at this stage if she bumped SO
> > You
> > > Think and Workforce and only received 3
> pounds
> > she
> > > would be TAILED OFF
> >
> >
> > or even River Jetez
>
> You are kidding I hope. River Jetez couldn't win
> the July carrying 50.5kg as a 4yo (1.1l behind),
> 51.5kg as a 5yo (3.75l behind) and 55kg as a 6yo
> (5.85l behind).


And neither did Pocket Power win as a three-year-old, Nor Empress Club, or Horse Chestnut - Also there were far less imported horses running when those champions raced.

this is a paragraph from the sporting post article written by none other than Matthew Lips......

While the latest edition of Greyville’s 2200m showpiece may not have been the most satisfying of races, with its sedate pace and heavy interference suffered by several runners early in the early stages, it produced what racing needs – a true champion, a horse that could help to sell racing to a wider public if only our operators could at least market free ice creams in a heat wave.

from what i read ML says she is a TRUE CHAMPION.......<

A true champion in the context that she wins all her races, gets people talking, and is good for the game. The fact that we are even having this discussion proves that Igugu is the sort of horse that racing needs, and she is undeoubtedly going to be crowned twice for her efforts at the Equus awards. However, we are comparing facts (she won the Triple Tiara, she won the July, etc) to opinion. She is a current superstar because of what she has achieved and in that sense I would call her a champion, but to use the word in the same context as it would be applied to a horse that runs to a merit rating of 120 or more is a different kettle of fish altogether.

I have no idea whether she is better than the likes of Pocket Power, but so what? Pocket Power may have only won the July half a time, but the July is not a championship decider. WFA events are what make true champions in the broader sense, and he won the Queen's Plate four fcuking times! He won the Met three times, and kept coming back year after year and proving himself to be truly top class, with the proviso that he arguably reserved his best form for one course. To selectively pick the July as the decider of what is a champion is crazy. The Australians go dilly for the Melbourne Cup (a handicap), but in most years it is the Cox Plate (WFA) which is considered to be a more accurate indicator of championship class by people who can see beyond the Cup hype.

Incidentally, going back to the original Ebony Flyer argument, Emerald Cove's performances against Igugu make for interesting reading. She finished 5.5 lengths behind Igugu at level weights in the Cape Fillies Guineas, 2.75 lengths behind Igugu in the Woolavington at level weights, and 2.40 lengths behind Igugu in the July, receiving 2 kgs. Even allowing for the fact that Igugu had something in hand when she won the Woolavington and the July (where her jockey could afford the luxury of a massive victory salute), Emerald Cove as a line horse suggests that the "massive improvement" which Igugu has made since she got rolled by Ebony Flyer may be a myth.

Different line horses may produce a different result, but it's something to think about and no serious handicapper can suggest that Igugu has ever run much above the 109 mark off which she won the July. 109 is an excellent MR and it makes Igugu the champion of her generation, at least with Ebony Flyer out of the equation, but it doesn't make her Horse Chestnut. On the other hand, a horse can only keep winning and I'd love to see Igugu go on to build even more on her record next season. I just think that we are being a tad hasty in labelling her an all-time "great" in terms of ability, even if her unique record entitles her to being considered a current "great."

As for Mr Delpech - he no doubt knows his stuff, but he will |never live the Lord London thing down.

Well said magic