Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58313
Overseas firms seem to be effecting the uk firms,and with driving the bookmakers overseas for tax reasons,will mean less and less gets back into the local economy/racing.


WILLIAM HILL reported resilient interim figures for the first four months of 2009 on Thursday, with Group net revenue rising 6.5 per cent.

However, any anticipated positive Grand National effect - expectations described by Hills as "hyperbole" - was dissipated by losing one third of British and Irish horseracing at the start of the year through thesevere weather and a Cheltenham that went the way of punters.

Over-the-counter gross win in the shops actually fell five per cent, although overall shop win rose two per cent thanks to a strong football performance, but especially FOBTs(casino machines), which delivered a 14 per cent increase.

Online, seeing the benefit of integration with Playtech, performed particularly well as revenues jumped ten per cent on a like-for-like basis.

Telephone profits, however, fell by 31 per cent in the period, badly affected by Cheltenham losses and increased competition from overseas operators operating in a more favourable tax climate. However, telephone betting only accounts for three per cent of Group business.


Hills chief executive Ralph Topping said: "Although the economic and competitive environment remains challenging, our results show continuing resilience. Integration of our online business is progressing, with an encouraging increase in the number of customer accounts, and we look forward to reaping the full benefits of this developing business."

He said horseracing
business remains under pressure, and a growth in football
profits came from small staking punters trying their luck at big win accumulators.

Topping remains concerned about overseas competition and British taxation
and while pleased at the early levy deal and relieved the Budget did not contain any major setbacks, still argues hundreds of betting shops remain vulnerable and the industry would be better served under the wing of Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform, rather than the DCMS.

Noting a DCMS led review at creating a "more level laying field", Topping predicted: "This review is a missed opportunity. We know and the government knows that their tax regime is a huge competitive burden for UK-based bookmakers. We know, and the government knows, that if they allowed the UK industry to flourish, they would have higher tax revenues, more jobs - and incidentally more money for racing.

"But once again we are going to have a partial review of issues which are either virtually impossible to solve [overseas operators] or largely irrelevant [integrity].

"Let's get the Treasury involved in this and talk with those in government who actually see the big picture about a modernised tax regime for a world class industry. The opportunity is out there - we just have to have the guts to take it. But quickly . . ."

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  • Dave Scott
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58314
Row between Betfair and Irish bookies escalates


THE row between Betfair and on-course bookmakers at Punchestown escalated dramatically on Thursday into a stand off between the betting exchange and Horse Racing Ireland.

Brian Kavanagh, chief executive of HRI, accused Betfair of "refusing" to pay money, a claim which was met with disappointment by management at the exchange who, in a counter claim, said that HRI had told them they were "not prepared" to accept anymore payments from Betfair at the rates they had been previously paying.

Instead, HRI requested that they should double their contribution - which is voluntary - from Friday.

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  • whitehouse
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58317
The Bookmaking Levy Scheme in UK has just been negotiated and one stat makes very interesting reading for those who shout Betfair Betfair!! The collection from Betfair and other exchanges is 6.9 million pounds.The collection from bookmakers is 106.1 million pounds so if Betfair comes here dont expect the stakes to increase watch the decline.By the way the tax from local bookmaking is about R150 million of which the provinces keep half and the raceclubs the other 75 million.Another point is that the whole game is funded by the PUNTER as the takeout from the tote is our money also.

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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58319
I find it amazing that people still debate whether bookmakers are good for the game or not. The answer is simple - they are not. They are parasitic and regardless of the volumes whitehouse mentions, offer a fraction of what would have been ploughed back should the turnover have been invested through the tote.

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  • Alcaponee
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58320
As far ask the original post goes:
As an online fixed odds punter I have never asked for a stretch, but I am glad that Dave Mollett took the bookies on. What he said made perfect sense as far as the deduction issue goes. This should never happen and cannot be explained away. I am starting to understand why their is such hatred for bookies. My understanding is that Dave was not calling for the stretch to be abolished but rather offered this an option. He was more calling for excuses from the bookies to be abolished.

As far as other issues raised on this thread goes:
Owners will never support bookies because of their contributions to the game and the argument will continue. I do not believe that banning bookies will offer any value to racing. A lot of punters will walk away as this will rob them of their freedom to choose. The fixed odds bet offers many choices. I am guessing that BI does not punt and therefore his interests lie with ownership and stakes. With due respect to BI and other owners on this forum, is it not a bit selfish to call for a banning of bookies and therefore the punters freedom to choose and then still say that the trainer has no right to pass info on to the general public so that they may perhaps win for a change. Is this game not built on the backs of thousands wagering the little money they have? I would guess that the bulk of pools are made up of thosands of little bets rather than larger ones. Very few big punters would lump on on the tote as the value will then dissapear. Even I cant find value on the tote with my R10 bets.

You will note that there are two topics in the previous paragraph that have been hotly debated on this forum and owners (generalisation, not all feel this way) seem to be on the negative side of both which leads one to believe that they are in it for number 1.... Its obvious that their is risk in all aspects of racing, punting, owning, breeding, riding, training etc and we all accept that when we walk into racing. Each goes hand in hand and cannot survive without the other. There is one fundamental difference between owning and punting. When the punter loses so what, in most cases its only some labourers last R10 until the end of the month, but on the owners side you still win albeit the stakes are slightly less.

Tote betting is stale, unattractive, valueless and does not really give an indication of a horses chances as you cannot see whether betting has shortened or gone out without staring at the screen for 20 minutes. Tote betting needs to become less complicated and offer more value and more chances of a big win. The Scoop 6 concept seems to be a winner in England.

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58331
pyramid Wrote:
> I find it amazing that people still debate whether
> bookmakers are good for the game or not. The
> answer is simple - they are not. They are
> parasitic and regardless of the volumes whitehouse
> mentions, offer a fraction of what would have been
> ploughed back should the turnover have been
> invested through the tote.


Do you think the punters that bet on horses with bookmakers and exchanges would switch to the tote if there was no other option?
would rather swith to sports betting than have my edges taking away

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  • Barry Irwin
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58336
Hibernia, what you fail to appreciate is that prize money has to come from a source in order for racing to continue to exist. The natural place it comes from is from a percentage of the money wagered.

If the entity taking the bets fails to contribute its fair share to prize money, there will in fact soon be nothing left to bet on.

That, my friend, is the trade off, and only through the tote can this be assured of taking place.

People that take and make bets that go through improper channels are killing the very sport on which they gamble

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  • Barry Irwin
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58337
Greenbook, use your noggin.

Prize money is down in most venues and the reason is that Betfair does not contribute its fair share toward prize money.

German racing is on the very of extinction because too much money is bet with Betfair and bookies. Baden-Baden, its premier race course, has filed for bankruptcy.

Italian racing...ditto.

Is that not enough for you?

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  • Barry Irwin
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58338
pyramid Wrote:
> I find it amazing that people still debate whether
> bookmakers are good for the game or not. The
> answer is simple - they are not. They are
> parasitic and regardless of the volumes whitehouse
> mentions, offer a fraction of what would have been
> ploughed back should the turnover have been
> invested through the tote.

100 percent

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  • Barry Irwin
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58339
hibernia Wrote:
> pyramid Wrote:
>
>
> > I find it amazing that people still debate
> whether
> > bookmakers are good for the game or not. The
> > answer is simple - they are not. They are
> > parasitic and regardless of the volumes
> whitehouse
> > mentions, offer a fraction of what would have
> been
> > ploughed back should the turnover have been
> > invested through the tote.
>
>
> Do you think the punters that bet on horses with
> bookmakers and exchanges would switch to the tote
> if there was no other option?
> would rather swith to sports betting than have my
> edges taking away


Which is why whatever comes from your keyboard is worthless.

You are not a racing man.

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58340
fair point barry,im a gambler,racing dont need punters!

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  • whitehouse
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Re: Re: Dave Mollet ! Who does he think he is ?

16 years 1 month ago
#58350
Hibernia dont listen to bi he needs punters to pay the stakes as he is buying and selling horses and makes his living out of horse racing,He buys horses like Russian Sage ,Gypsey Warning for what ever sells a share on ,makes the previous owner sign a confidentially clause as to the price ,makes commission on every aspect of racing and tells punters you are not a racing man!!.Tell him to fund his own stakes with his mates thats how racing started but horse owners thing its their god given right for punters to fund their game.Do you see any other sport funded by punters.

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