De Kock on Stakes

From Charl’s site



De Kock talks stakes
MIKE DE KOCK

IN the wake of Phumelela’s stakes reduction and the revised spread of prize money announced this week, multiple champion trainer and Racing Association Board member, Mike de Kock, was asked his opinion of what has transpired and to explain the thinking around the issue.

OCTOBER 16, 2019
De Kock said that the reason for the stakes reduction was, quite simply, the drop in betting turnover.

“The reduction was unavoidable. It was a card that the RA was dealt with by Phumelela, and we came up with something we believe is a feasible temporary solution considering the circumstances.”

De Kock highlighted the effects of the Bookmakers’ so-called ‘Open Bet’ on tote betting yields.

“Racing loses a lot of its turnover to the open bet – as stated by Phumelela there is a loss to this bet of R75,000 for every million. This is problematic and it’s the cause of the rot that has set in.”

He explained why and how the RA came to spread the stakes from 1st to 10th place.

“We looked at the stakes pot as a whole. We took millions from some big stakes races, like the Sun Met and the Premiers Challenge, and we propped up the smaller stakes races. Then we tried to redistribute the available stakes to create participation, and this is a vital point to understand. Two factors in our betting decline have been small fields and a lack of participation. Punters enjoy a wider variety and they invest more to have a better chance of winning. In an attempt to encourage participation by owners and trainers, so to achieve larger fields, we decided to pay down to 10th place.

“This is something that was tried in the United States and it worked. If not successful here, we will re-assess the situation and try something different. We have made work of it. We have been open-minded, looking for something new.”

De Kock said that the spread of stakes to 10th place may be insignificant to some, but most significant to others. “An owner who pays nominations and acceptance fees and whose horse participates in betting turnover is entitled to a share of the spoils. What is wrong with that? Not all of us can be winners, there will always be losers too. The winners are well taken care of with between 58 and 62% of stakes. Others should be getting a share of the action for participating.

“An amount like R1,000 may seem paltry for 10th place in a Maiden Plate, but it will cover a bill or two. Tenth place in the forthcoming Charity Mile will be worth R10,000 and for 10th place in the Derby the connections will get R20,000.”

He compared a horse race to a golf tournament.

“The sponsors don’t stage golf tournaments paying the first five players only. They pay a prize up to last place, otherwise there won’t be tournaments to enjoy. They pay everyone because it creates a spectacle. It generates interest. We’re in trouble with six, seven and eight-horse fields, we need bigger fields.

“Each racing centre has its own needs. We have more participation in Gauteng. In my view the stakes pot in Cape Town shouldn’t necessarily be the same as the one in Gauteng. They can cut their cloth the way they see fit. There is no need to be derogatory and throw insults around. We all need each other, I am disappointed by the way some people have reacted. Instead of nasty comments and suggesting skulduggery, they should be coming up with constructive ideas.

“An owner who pays nominations and acceptance fees and whose horse participates in betting turnover is entitled to a share of the spoils. What is wrong with that?

“Most of the people slinging off don’t understand the stakes pot or the stakes formula. It took me a few board meetings to understand it myself. What happened was inevitable and we had to deal with what we got.”

De Kock touched on the racehorse population and noted: “Eighty percent of our horses are mediocre, but we need them to race, they have to get in and earn money for their owners. Most of us own battling horses, myself included, but what are we to do? These runners have to show some kind of return. Are we just going to ignore the plight of the smaller owners, or those with moderate horses? In my opinion they are just as important to racing as the owners with large strings of horses.”

He urged industry players to look at the situation objectively.

“The problem is that racing people have a resistance to change, they don’t want to think out of the box. They have to see the spread of prize money in the spirit in which it was done. We have been trying to find solutions. Ours was an attempt to do something different, to offer rewards to a greater proportion of participants. We want to ease the pain so that all of us can survive.”

“What is important to note is that we are trying to make a difference, we are acutely aware of racing’s problems and we’re putting our heads together to solve them. The RA is taking action on a number of fronts. We’re taking measures to keep the machine running and to improve things for everyone, but there is no magic wand. This process will take time.”

De Kock said that some comments on social media were uncalled for. “There are prominent racing figures criticising us, and some of them actually put their money on the open bet with bookmakers and don’t contribute to the stakes pot. We invite them to come with solutions instead of slinging off. We are all ears. We’ll welcome their input. This is a new era.”

He concluded: “Most bookmakers themselves are racing people, they love the game as we do and I don’t think they want to be in this situation. But at some point they were chased away and they took a number of tote clients with them. We should be wooing them back.

“I can understand why the bookmakers are popular. They are betting professionals with great, functional websites, little downtime and effective customer service. We should be catering to the needs of our punters by improving our own service, online and on-course offering so that that they can return and contribute to tote turnover. If we don’t, racing will not survive.”

www.turftalk.co.za

I wonder why I find myself biting my lip ? What a load of BS !!

neigh wrote: I wonder why I find myself biting my lip ? What a load of BS !!

Your not alone, had 3 messages saying the same.

A great trainer that should perhaps stick to training horses. This explanation of paying 10 places......

One of the best trainers we've had but oh so naïve.
He is no match for Larry Wainstein and the latter's Phumelela brethren.
With him leaving for Australia, why did he not keep his mouth shut and be remembered as a great trainer rather than another Wainstein/Phumelela stooge ?

When I saw the heading, I was rather optimistic that some action plan would be forthcoming but find myself disappointed.

Its unfortunate that nobody wants to take responsibility and the excuses and current situation could have been minimised.

Reference to other posts:

The open bet should be the intellectual property of tote and the case should have been won in favour of the tote.
The recent case where the operator won, should be grounds to open the original case.

A better solution was to get into bed with leading bookmakers eg WSB etc and come up with a more suitable solutions as far as %.

GC took this type of initiatives with HW, not sure of details but the option to punters is available in HW shops to punt on tote.

The tote offices have a poor customer image and rather than duplicating facilities, rather than create two shops, have one classy shop for the punter to enjoy his day.

We still have some tough times ahead and still look forward to seeing the minutes of the meetings that took place to turn the game around?

A bit transparency would help to get everyone on the same wavelength.

Good Punting or moaning?

Any reaction always welcome.

Always interesting to read another viewpoint - and to say that just because he is a great trainer, it follows that he can't have an opinion about other racing issues, is surely not playing the ball.

For me, the issue about paying down to 10th place, is really a non-issue in the greater scheme of things - the paltry difference this makes to the stakes paid out to the 1st five places, is negligible imo - so I'm leaning towards saying while not necessarily a 'good' thing, I don't think it is a 'bad' thing ?

What I do challenge though, is the following :

"Most of the people slinging off don’t understand the stakes pot or the stakes formula. It took me a few board meetings to understand it myself. What happened was inevitable and we had to deal with what we got.”

I agree that 'most people don't understand the stakes pot or the stakes formula' - but surely the reason for not understanding it, is because it has never been explained to Joe Soap - we can't all sit on the board meetings of the RA - so how about someone in the RA finally coming out and explain how the formula works ?

“What is important to note is that we are trying to make a difference, we are acutely aware of racing’s problems and we’re putting our heads together to solve them. The RA is taking action on a number of fronts. We’re taking measures to keep the machine running and to improve things for everyone, but there is no magic wand. This process will take time.”

Kindly enlighten us as to which actions are being undertaken ? On which fronts ? Surely the ''pay stakes up to 10th place' can't be the only 'action' ?

"We should be catering to the needs of our punters by improving our own service, online and on-course offering so that that they can return and contribute to tote turnover. If we don’t, racing will not survive.”

Most everyone would agree with the above - but the 'service' provided has been nothing but shocking for the last 20 + years - who on the RA / Phumelela bandwagon is taking responsibility for 'improving the service' - and imo it does not only need 'improvement' - it needs a radical overhaul.

Frodo wrote: Always interesting to read another viewpoint - and to say that just because he is a great trainer, it follows that he can't have an opinion about other racing issues, is surely not playing the ball.

For me, the issue about paying down to 10th place, is really a non-issue in the greater scheme of things - the paltry difference this makes to the stakes paid out to the 1st five places, is negligible imo - so I'm leaning towards saying while not necessarily a 'good' thing, I don't think it is a 'bad' thing ?

What I do challenge though, is the following :

"Most of the people slinging off don’t understand the stakes pot or the stakes formula. It took me a few board meetings to understand it myself. What happened was inevitable and we had to deal with what we got.”

I agree that 'most people don't understand the stakes pot or the stakes formula' - but surely the reason for not understanding it, is because it has never been explained to Joe Soap - we can't all sit on the board meetings of the RA - so how about someone in the RA finally coming out and explain how the formula works ?

“What is important to note is that we are trying to make a difference, we are acutely aware of racing’s problems and we’re putting our heads together to solve them. The RA is taking action on a number of fronts. We’re taking measures to keep the machine running and to improve things for everyone, but there is no magic wand. This process will take time.”

Kindly enlighten us as to which actions are being undertaken ? On which fronts ? Surely the ''pay stakes up to 10th place' can't be the only 'action' ?

"We should be catering to the needs of our punters by improving our own service, online and on-course offering so that that they can return and contribute to tote turnover. If we don’t, racing will not survive.”

Most everyone would agree with the above - but the 'service' provided has been nothing but shocking for the last 20 + years - who on the RA / Phumelela bandwagon is taking responsibility for 'improving the service' - and imo it does not only need 'improvement' - it needs a radical overhaul.

Frodo, I have not had the pleasure of meeting you in person yet, but I certainly do enjoy your posts.

1000 RAND for tenth place

less 15% vat
less 7.5% trainer
less 7.5% jockey
less 1 % groom
690 RAND what is that gonna pay pray tell?

Owners are taking all the pain in this new world of lower stakes.

Trainers till get their training fees
Jocks still get their riding fees.
Grooms are like Dobbie the sock elf. so they wont feel the impact

Unless all the owners take a stand to get more meaningful representation on NB decisions.

The RA is clearly not that vehicle.

If the owner is not looked after, safe to say racing has started its final death march

Sly even the xmas jocks charge 10%

Just putting it out there

Sylvester wrote: If the owner is not looked after, safe to say racing has started its final death march

The owner comes first, the punter second, the others are also-ran’s.

Hail the owner.




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Look after the owner then watch racing look after itself.


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