The Open bet - help required

I thought it was illegal to bet on credit...or to give credit for punters to use to bet. No?

Abacus, I believe a gambling debt is not enforceable under the law, so, while you can bet on credit, the bookie has no recourse to the courts for recovery, should you fail to pay up.

I can also get less than 1% bet with bookies,for a P6, while tote only allows a minimum of 1% bet.

So if my perm works out to R600, I play it for R250 and the bet is accepted on with the bookie.

Why would I want to spend R600 on the tote., and still have to put up with some arrogant , inefficient employee who feels she is doing ME a favour by getting my bets in before the race goes off.

And you have no idea how many winning bets I have lost out on, because of tote operators having conversations, while attempting to take punters bets before the gates open.

And then you also have soccer bets, which have a couple hours to go before the first game, taking precedence over a race which is about to run.

Why don't you have machines dedicated to soccer/sport, and machines dedicated to racing. Problem solved.

Reminds me of this government..bunch of self serving F£€#cks

Edge Wrote:

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> Abacus, I believe a gambling debt is not
> enforceable under the law, so, while you can bet
> on credit, the bookie has no recourse to the
> courts for recovery, should you fail to pay up.

No, that is not true.

There was an old law that said for e.g. that if you lent money to someone who at the time was losing heavily at something, that you became partly to blame when you couldn't collect from the bloke when he was out, or to that effect. So there was some law that made someone who gave credit somewhat responsible.

Although even that must be defunct now, if you empty your credit cards at the casino ATM, you still have to pay the bank. You would think an ATM at the casino is a loaded gun.

However, if you call you bookie and he lays you a big bet and you think if I win I collect and if I lose I don't have to pay, then you going to find that won't turn out well for you should you end up in court. Funny enough, don't you find the vast majority of people do honour gambling debts?

Jack Dash Wrote:

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i have altered it somewhat,

> I think my last word on this because I can offer
> nothing new is: there are people who own
> the racing business, Racing pays dividends from profit
> to shareholders

but as you put it JD this is racings BIG problem

Thanks Jack, I stand corrected on the gambling debt issue.

@ Observer1 , I have never ever said or done anything against Punters. They are the lifeblood of the Industry and are valued, I go out of my way to assist any and all Punters, as I do directly on this site and not through my website or tipping line etc. What I am saying is that, whenever possible, I take the time to post here, on my opinions on the chances of my runners.

But, you should maybe also think of the investment of Owners in the horses which Punters bet on. Also, most of us Owners and Trainers are also Punters and also contribute, quite substantially, I would presume, to the pools. And in spite of this, I remain opposed to the open bet which enjoys a free ride on racing's back.

@Jack, the competing restaurants example only qualifies if you mention that one has to pay the rent of the other. The example is poor, as it fails to mention that one is paying directly into the running of racing and the other is not. The one who is not paying rent, will find it very easy to put breadrolls on the table, plus a lot more.....

louisg Wrote:

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> @Jack, the competing restaurants example only
> qualifies if you mention that one has to pay the
> rent of the other. The example is poor, as it
> fails to mention that one is paying directly into
> the running of racing and the other is not. The
> one who is not paying rent, will find it very easy
> to put breadrolls on the table, plus a lot
> more.....

LG I'm not trying to change your mind, clearly you have your opinions. However, if you lose an election, that new government is your government. You can't get violent if you lose, and neither can you tell the victors that they should hand back the victory. You live in a competitive world, you must know how to win and how to lose?

By the same token, that open bet issue has been lost. I have been told that the operators took legal advice and ended their objections as they were told it was over. I don't know if that is true, maybe someone can add?

Its simple math really and about time we stop beating around the bush (pardon the pun)

if the tele bet operators were sucking you off while you placed your bet MOST open bet players would still take the open bet

lets face it if you are a guy taking

1 x 2 x 3/4/5 x 5000 then no amount of service can swing you into a tote bet.....you would simply kill the pool.
so we left with 30% credit clients that will never play tote
of the remaining 70% i bet you a great % are blokes like the example above (pool plunderers trying to cath the obvious 1000's of times)
then there is the rest
even if you are the BIGGEST supporter of the open bet i bet you the following happens

you fancy 2 horses, they are 20/1 and 12/1 and they in the PICK 6
i bet you that YOU don't take the pick 6 in an open bet ONLY but you take it on the tote as well.....after all why would YOU run the risk of a carryover and a huge dividend being limited????

So lets call a spade a spade, the open bet will continue as long as there are bookmakers (licensed or not)

louisg Wrote:

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> @ Observer1 , I have never ever said or done
> anything against Punters. They are the lifeblood
> of the Industry and are valued, I go out of my way
> to assist any and all Punters, as I do directly on
> this site and not through my website or tipping
> line etc. What I am saying is that, whenever
> possible, I take the time to post here, on my
> opinions on the chances of my runners.
>

LG, Mr Goosen, and when I say Mr Goosen, I say this with the utmost respect. I value your views and your opinion, and comments about racing, and your runners, win or lose. You offer transparency, something the majority of players in racing either do not have the balls to do, or intentionally will not do.

I have no gripe with you.

It makes me wonder why unlike you, the rest of the key players in this game are so secretive about expressing their opinions, and airing their views, for the betterment of racing SA.

Simply put, they are idiots. I cannot understand that, excepting, maybe because as the late Buddy Maroun said to me , " their horses win in spite of what they do instead of BECAUSE of what they do". I was encouraged by Buddy, to be honest with any and all of the public, the Punters. We often had a chuckle at certain pretenders in racing....

If I was P I would have bitten the bookmakers arms off ..... In fact I would have agreed a model that rewarded volume with as much as 50% participation in the take out. Further to this I would have ensured owners and punters were rewarded for volume , on their horses and from their punting ....Why? Simple. racing has a high fixed cost base which is largely covered by the current turnover... P makes a profit right...and don't give me the party line that if it wasn't for this or that racing would run at a loss as my retort will be that without racing P would have nothing! The marginal cost of taking another bet/increased turnover is.... Close to zero, especially if this turnover is produced through the marketing, distribution, client service, management , staff and and and of an organization that is outside of your cost base... Meaning that any increased turnover takeout less the "commission" goes straight to the bottom line of P.

Fighting the bookmakers is like fighting prohibition, embrace them, partner them and reward them. Add punters and owners to the reward program and in the result I have ZERO doubt the following outcomes will occur:
Turnover will increase
Punters will increase
Owners will increase
And... P will pay bigger dividends and god forbid bigger prize money....

BTW before you respond and argue the point just consider that this model exists and thrives in 100s of industries around the world and if you can't think of one think stock trading on exchange, via a broker, over the counter, derivatives, commission, volume rebates, shareholders, and and and....