The Open bet - help required

Having first hand experience in all aspects of RACING let me state that those against the TOTE are only concerned about ur own take out and fark RACING. YOU and the Bookies are only Raping Horse Racing by only putting token money back into the game and taking out as much as U can.

Why has French Racing survived and grown, because they have an HONEST Tote only, no bloodsucker BOOKIES.

Only MO.

To me it is about principle and principle alone.

It is easy to rant and rave about bookies, eg the World would be better without bookies, bookies can make phone calls to jocks, bookies can price up as they want blah blah blah. The bottom line is that bookies are here and have been around forever and are gonna stay.

The only problem that I have is with the theft of tote turnover, which hurts racing. What I laugh at is that bookies now suddenly care about punters rights to bet how and where they want. This is all good and moral and "nice" when this sentiment allows you to take what is not rightfully yours....

Just stop the open bet and lets have peace. Allow the tote to do its own rightful business. If you really care about your punters, install a tote in your premises. The tote turnover goes to the tote and you get a small percentage anyway, with no risk. Then market your business to your customers.

But, no! That would be "unfair" and all the whinging is actually from the bookies, in this regard. You see, the tote may not open a bookie in every outlet, but the bookies can open their own tote in every room, where they have a license, trading off the dividends of the tote but not putting the same amounts back into racing. The playing fields are not level. And until they are level, I will oppose the situation.

And if the turnover from the open bet were insignificant, the bookies would not be fighting for it. That is the bottom line.

LG but the Tote steal from the punter as soon as the strike a bet

Sorry, Mr H, to answer your question and comment on your suggestions re working together and percentages etc to bookies etc etc

Based on my post above, my take on that is obviously one of zero tolerance - I am not going to negotiate and "do a deal" with the bookies who lay the open bet, which is plainly and simply draining the Industry. I would rather take that extra percentage and fight them anyway I can, until they drop the open bet. Thats all that racing needs - give unto the tote the tote turnover.

hibernia Wrote:

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> LG but the Tote steal from the punter as soon as
> the strike a bet


That is not theft... it is a fee for providing the racing infrastructure or 'product' if you like... and of course the bookies who 'care' about the punter actually only 'care' about the losing punter. We all KNOW that if you are a consistent winner you are limited immediately :X

Instead of crying about the bookies and the open bet, maybe Phumelela should consider upgrading there facilities such as what they offer in HONG KONG, Debbie posted some pics showing there betting halls about a year back.

Its NOT always about the bet but the environment that you offer your product in.. Start offering a PROPER EXPERIENCE in your totes and you will see less punters taking the open bet imo... Until then why would a punter want to go into a dirty tote facility with rude operators when they can go sit in the comfort of a Hollywood branch...

Withdrawal from a tote account is painful.

Cashing a sizable winning bet is equally as painful.

Two bookies know me by name. They say "good day and thank you (sometimes sir)".

I have witnessed Tote staff eat behind the counters whilst serving mugs.

Tote outlets are disgusting.

Stopped going to Totes decades ago and have kept my promise.

No thank you sir.

louisg Wrote:

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> Sorry, Mr H, to answer your question and comment
> on your suggestions re working together and
> percentages etc to bookies etc etc
>
> Based on my post above, my take on that is
> obviously one of zero tolerance - I am not going
> to negotiate and "do a deal" with the bookies who
> lay the open bet, which is plainly and simply
> draining the Industry. I would rather take that
> extra percentage and fight them anyway I can,
> until they drop the open bet. Thats all that
> racing needs - give unto the tote the tote
> turnover.

LG its easy to get revved up here. You must remember it was only 2 bookies who went to court and shocked most people by winning too, and now those are the rules. But there are no leaders in racing now, anyone can start a fight and just let it run it's course. Why do we let our industry get hi-jacked when 95% of the participants just want to enjoy it?

We all guilty of choosing a side and the after that closing our eyes. Where are the people who can see both sides and work out deals? Why can no one come up with an idea like for example, the bookies agree to a gambling board rule change that they must deduct the tax 6% from an open bet and Tellytrack regains it's sanity and puts a proper plan in place. Do we not know how to get to a win-win anymore?

If the emotion and anger against bookies on the this site is indicative of the strategy against the open bet , it is no wonder that no progress has been made!
The facts are that the open bet is legally fair-that is done and dusted - it now requires a strategy to incentivize bookmakers to become tote agents......it is the only avenue that remains available?!

The industry is in dire straights (great band ()) and to top it all it is just about to loose its single biggest draw card...the television coverage. And how do senior role players respond...they fight on. It is the fight that is slowly dismantling the industry.

Louis G, with due respect, your suggestion to fight at all costs - and I coat {coat is the new pronunciation of quote courtesy of most of the ANC leadership} -' I would rather take that extra percentage and fight them anyway I can, until they drop the open bet.' uncoat. - is most problematic to me and imo the central reason why the industry is unravelling so alarmingly before our eyes. We should not be encouraging these forces to fight whatever their agendas are. We should be encouraging them, somehow, to resolve these issues period! Its time to move on, even if that means accepting the long standing status quo before the industry is harmed beyond repair.

LG has once again shown his support for the broedebond.After all he is Afrikaans.Why must the bookmakers stop laying the open bet when P/G came into the bookmakers space by using tax generated by bookmakers to become the biggest bookmaking firm in South Africa,and on top of it when you spend a day in a tattersalls racing all you hear non stop is the pool is reaching R1 million,This is betting World!! The whole day is spent promoting their own company and they expect the bookmakers who pay a substantial amout towards the cost of Telly track to bend over and catch one up the bum!!DONT FORGET EVERY CENT FROM BOTH BOOKMAKERS AND THE TOTE COMES FROM ONE SOURCE ONLY THE PUNTER >WITHOUT THE PUNTER RACING WILL COLLAPSE TOTALLY.THey promote only their own pools and their own bookmaking concern,so let them pay for the channel themselves.

I see there are lots of knowledgeable posters on this thread. Most post make assumptions about the trouble racing is in.

What do you identify as the big problems? Where is the dire straight?

My opinion is that if a business takes care of it's customer, it will usually get where it should be. I think racing thinks all the players are it's customers, rather than the customer, the punter. All the rest is just people talking from their pockets.