The Open bet - help required

Whitehouse, Bettingworld don't offer the open bet....

Louis,I am completely against it !!
Is that what has been confusing you?
However , crying foul , unfair , parasites etc isn't going to fix it and the "big stick" failed....badly!
What is left ? What I have been saying all along -you have to incentivize the bookmakers to negotiate .
So, surprise ....we both want the same result ....I just believe in being realistic and recognizing the legal position(like it or not) and basing any strategy from that premise!
Why am I frustrated?
Because the litigation was over ages ago -since then income to the open bet has merely increased more and more(millions just recently in respect of Lance Michael)
It's just getting worse !why is the good business sense not working towards a solution ? How long should it take? What is the progress? All we hear, with every new set of financials,is the same old sob story.

I think it's always a case of fixing the source problem and IMO the open bet was created by punters unhappy with customer service and voicing their dissatisfaction by finding an alternative way to punt.
I am happy that people like Vee are prepared to post or reply to customers complaints in the same fashion as Hollywood, is a step in the right direction.
There is probably a place in the sun for all.
The tote for exotics, the books for fixed wins and ATC and an exchange for the future.

Good day all, I am able to clear up the open bet issue.
Simply put very few tote agents can survive at 4% commission, subsequently they compromise on service, premises and or facilities. They become dependent on secondary businesses like bars and or LPMs(slot machines), ultimately they end up subsidising the racing industry.
Bookmakers on the other hand, spend money on their shops and generally try to provide great facilities. In most of my KZN based shops I am the tote agent and I find that it works well as I am not dependent on the 4% I receive as commission from Gold Circle. If I was, there is no way on the planet I would be able to provide the facilities that I do.
I do not like to limit my customers as to where they may or may not take their bets so I do offer the open bet.
However some three and a half years ago we, as the bookmaking industry and lead by ourselves, put a proposal to Phumelela and Gold Circle that in return for giving up the open bet we would accept 8% commission on new turnover. Not on existing turnover through our agencies, this would hopefully be the additional turnover from us giving up the open bet. The existing turnover would be reduced to zero over a ten year period, so in essence we would over a ten year period eventually be paid 8% on the full existing turnover.
This proposal was accepted quite eagerly by Gold Circle but flatly rejected by Rian du Plessis of Phumelela, citing all wonders of potential irregularities that could occur. According to Rian du Plessis bookmakers a so good at punting they don’t need to work as they keep all the losing open bets and then take back all the winning bets on the tote and in this manner reduce the dividends. I must be one of the stupid bookmakers who still needs to work.
I trust that explains the issue of the open bet; simply put Phumelela want all the business but do not want to pay for it.
I will be happy to answer and questions on this subject.

Welcome Mr Marshall and thank you for your post.

Can you please clarify the deal as it was proposed as far as the year period was concerned.

Were the bookmakers ultimately seekng 8% comm on all tote turnover after the 10 year period whereas before that time had elapsed you would take 8% on the new/additional income and 4% of the existing (averaged out I assume) turnover?

sorry...correction...as far as the 10 year period was concerned

Jeremy,

My question is of your total take on the open bet how much is

1: cash
2: credit

In % terms will do nicely thank you

Bookmakers would continue to receive 8% on anything above the last 12 months average turnover and 4% monthly on the existing average turnover in year one. In year two the average turnover would be reduced by 1/10th and that 1/10th added to the amount that bookmakers were receiving 8% on. In this way after 10 years bookmakers would eventually receive 8% on the full amount in return for giving up the open bet.

At a rough estimate, 30% credit and 70% cash.

Thank you

So the 30% cant be counted on to go into pools....

Now here is the conundrum
deal done with powers
You put through all cash bets
What happens to credit clients ( probably the bigger bets anyway)
To keep them you have to continue offering them the open bet
Or they will move to a bookmaker that does
So decision time.....

For me it has to be one or the other ( for racing to survive and grow)

Either tote only or bookmakers only and possibly an exchange

If its not about local racing,prize money,long term sustainability then carry on as now but for me a mix will never work.

Jeremy,
Maybe we could look at it another way...
1) The established Pub with LPM's etc can add to their existing business, by creating new/additional feet and increased turnover in their core business, by offering racing and then still receive 4% on turnover...
2)The proceeds of the open bet are paying you for your improvements and facilities. That tote money could be used to jack the totes up.
3)The tote may not offer fixed odds betting because they do not have a bookies license, but the bookies may offer the open bet without having a tote license.( I assume that I am correct here). This will always seem unfair, especially when you accuse Phumelela of wanting all of the business and not wanting to pay for it...... They offer you 4% of turnover and they pay to run racing and stakes.
4)The very crux of the matter, though has been very skilfully avoided.
4.1 The open bet must be worth a lot of money, if it is paying for your facilities, so Phumelela are correct to object. Not small money...
4.2 This substantial amount of money could very easily reduce or alter dividends on the tote, if you wish to do this by laying some or all off, especially as the tote pools have been reduced already, due to the open bet. That's a no brainer.

So, maybe the solution is for the bookies to get together and buy them out of Betting World and then offer their tote at 4% to your customers whom you want to accommodate and not prescribe to, as to where to bet. That way, each sticks to his own.

Ultimately, though, given the limits and restrictions on punters by bookies nowadays, it appears that the tote bets are increasing and that this is why the bookies are fighting for the open bet. Basically, we all often post here regarding our concerns for racing and its future. Perhaps Bookmakers are also a dying trade ? If not, why bother about the tote bets....?