tote doubles-whats going on?

Rob

If there is no value on the tote why are the biggest horse racing punters in the world punting on the tote?

who are the biggest punters in the world ? maybe because of anonymity ...

easy Wrote:

---

> Rob
>
> If there is no value on the tote why are the
> biggest horse racing punters in the world punting
> on the tote?

Easy, I would bet that the only "big" punters who bet on the tote either have no "fixed price" facility or are manipulating tote pools ,as the banned fellow in Australia was doing---surely the bigger the punter you are the more you reduce your own value on the tote---that is not rocket science.
I challenge any big punter in SA to tell us they punt their win/ place bets on the tote.
I further challenge any owner who has had a reasonable strike on his horse to tell us he had it on the tote,if a fixed price product was available.

If you are talking about France for instance,do you not think the big punters are not utilizing the European Union factor and betting accordingly?

The other point I made, and is relevant ,is that if the tote is all you've got, you have no measure as to whether there is value or not!

Rob

In countries without bookmakers the tote thrives and the big players operate

Hong kong for 1 is the hunting ground for the biggest punters in the world and its all on the tote.

The french tote is also very very strong and sizeable bets can be wagered.

longshotrot Wrote:

---

> I was not refering to ATC .. i was refering to the
> tote double.. i learnt about the all to come bet
> the hard way.... many times
>
> i once had 25k going into places into a duncan
> howell horse to place.. i took a 4 horse all to
> come and accidentally added a massive outsider to
> win instead of place.. duncans horse was 25/1 and
> was less than R1 to place.. ended up tote
> favourite to place and didnt hit the board..

you still get 10K back as the most that can go forward is 15K

Titch Wrote:

---

> longshotrot Wrote:
>

---

>

---

> > I was not refering to ATC .. i was refering to
> the
> > tote double.. i learnt about the all to come
> bet
> > the hard way.... many times
> >
> > i once had 25k going into places into a duncan
> > howell horse to place.. i took a 4 horse all to
> > come and accidentally added a massive outsider
> to
> > win instead of place.. duncans horse was 25/1
> and
> > was less than R1 to place.. ended up tote
> > favourite to place and didnt hit the board..
>
> you still get 10K back as the most that can go
> forward is 15K


EISH!

Betting into SA tote is like punting blind, punters have no idea what price they going to get on the win or place bets.

who want to get a money back return on there bet...(td)

and even worse is this cock and bull story about how co-mingling will benefit the punter, what a load of utter bullshit, the only ones that benefit is Phumelela!!!!

Easy,I am fascinated that you are,quite rightly, one of the great advocators of "value" betting, and yet you believe tote type punting is the answer.
If you calculate that a horse has a 25% chance of winning a race,the value threshold is 3/1.If you looka the books and the horse is 4/1.......great and you take your ,say,R40000/10,000.
If you only have the tote,do you back it or not? paying R5 so you put your 10,000 down ........15 mins later horse shortens to R3,50 ...so you cancel???? ...........just before the off paying R4 .......what do you do now ????

Is there a suitable compromise ..........yes .......bolt on a fixed price tote to the existing "pool" priduct (AKA Betting Exchange)

But the lot that run our industry couldn't find their own arse ,with either hand,with the lights on.

Rob,

The thing is the value on the tote is not in the won markets and the big hitters are not targeting these markets.

NOw trifectas for example and other exotics are targeted. When structuring bets of course one takes the deduction into account . I am ot one of these players, i am a notning on the punting scene but i have taken a share fore example of about 3000 different pick 6 s in the states a couple of years ago when the operator chucked in $1 million into the pool. The guys i went woth hit 1 button and all 3000 bets were wagered ina millisecond. The spend was £50k and i took 1% of their spend ( as a favour)

Any racing country with an exchange and a tote will be the best racing juristiction in the world.....bookies no thanks

easy Wrote:

---

> Rob,
>
> The thing is the value on the tote is not in the
> won markets and the big hitters are not targeting
> these markets.
>
> NOw trifectas for example and other exotics are
> targeted. When structuring bets of course one
> takes the deduction into account . I am ot one of
> these players, i am a notning on the punting scene
> but i have taken a share fore example of about
> 3000 different pick 6 s in the states a couple of
> years ago when the operator chucked in $1 million
> into the pool. The guys i went woth hit 1 button
> and all 3000 bets were wagered ina millisecond.
> The spend was £50k and i took 1% of their spend (
> as a favour)
>
> Any racing country with an exchange and a tote
> will be the best racing juristiction in the
> world.....bookies no thanks

And I thought you were disagreeing..................lol :)o

or are you suggesting there should be no win/place punting?

No rob

I agree and point out.

Huge punters dont fire into win pool
But a 500k win pool is pretty robust and can easily absorb a 30k win bet with a very small impact on dividend, i dont think there are tooo many CASH punting punters staking 30k a race.

If serious win and place punters are bursting at the seems and they have cash then an exchange caters for them.

easy Wrote:

---

> No rob
>
> I agree and point out.
>
> Huge punters dont fire into win pool
> But a 500k win pool is pretty robust and can
> easily absorb a 30k win bet with a very small
> impact on dividend, i dont think there are tooo
> many CASH punting punters staking 30k a race.
>
> If serious win and place punters are bursting at
> the seems and they have cash then an exchange
> caters for them.


But explain how the French or Yanks back win/place with only totes been legal................those are the countries you have using as the shining examples,and we follow, for years!