Does breeding a champion to a champion really breed a champ

I have noticed that not all former champions have done well at stud(mares) hence does it really work?

And some great male racehorses don't make the grade even though they get excellent mares, at least in their first few years at stud, e.g. Sea Cottage.

Breed a champion with a champion with a champion trainer than u'll get a champ

Breed a chump to a chump and you'll get a double-chump.

Breed the best to the best and just HOPE for the best...

(I recently saw a documentary on Sir Tristram, the successful NZ sire, on TT. What was quite sad is how quick he was with his mare. It was like one stroke )

So now i can at least claim to be the Sir Tristram of Durbs ()

Mac Wrote:

---

> Breed the best to the best and just HOPE for the
> best...
>
> (I recently saw a documentary on Sir Tristram, the
> successful NZ sire, on TT. What was quite sad is
> how quick he was with his mare. It was like one
> stroke )

but he has maybe 40 different strokes a season! lucky boy

some times the blood" or genes from champs in the 3rd generation comes through not necessarily from the mom and the dad, although it is not always the case.
here is example a horse called EVER FAIR won the holiday Inns the breeder couldn't give it away if I am not mistaken the breeder was in guy from the old Wes Transvaal I think Pa Els?
not sure bit it rings a bell long time a go, nobody wanted the horse , to small etc not fashionably bred, maybe some one can supply breeding then we can see if there was champions in the 2/3/4 generations?

Does not work - less than 10%. Work on pedigrees only - even if it means less fancied mares or stallions.

There is a science in genetics..... but in human nature gut feel still prevails.....:S

Genetics is a science all right but like many sciences it works on averages and statistics. Like for instance, a cricketer could have an average run-rate of 50, but he can still go out for a duck in THIS match (usually the one I have paid to go watch).

Breeding the best to the best, on AVERAGE gets the best results, that's proven by the number-crunchers. It's simply a fact and the figures show it. But the foal you get this time around may still be a goose. With stallions you get enough foals for averages to start to work, but a mare has only a few foals in her lifetime, so with her it's a bit of a lottery.

All the same you wonder about horses like Sea Cottage ... such a wonderful horse on course but never bred anything really good, never mind as good as himself ... and nothing in the 2nd generation either. Maybe that's where lack of pedigree shows up ... Muhti would know more about it than me. His (SC's) breeding was nothing to write home to Ma about as far as I remember.

Gut feeling is, imho, unconcious knowlege, and the great breeders (and trainers and lots of other professions too) have it. They've dealt with these matters so long and so often that their knowlege sort of goes underground and they just seem to pull it out from nowhere. Like drilling into a piece of dry desert and whooosh! you have water.

Mavourneen Wrote:

---

>
>
> All the same you wonder about horses like Sea
> Cottage ... such a wonderful horse on course but
> never bred anything really good, never mind as
> good as himself ... and nothing in the 2nd
> generation either. Maybe that's where lack of
> pedigree shows up ... Muhti would know more about
> it than me. His (SC's) breeding was nothing to
> write home to Ma about as far as I remember.
>
>
Quite the contrary... Sea Cottage had a smashing and proven pedigree.... his sire had many group winners and a July winner in Left Wing way before SC ....and the tail line had been previously exposed to Fairthorn in relatives such as Arsenal,Muscovite and showed plenty affinity to dam sire Mechant Navy.....he was however a flop at stud and may have not been exposed to the right band of mares..