Is the Tote being manipulated ?

  • umlilo
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70551
barry irwin: will watch this thread closely, because I for one am inclined not to believe it.

agree with adios bookies! I was at the Firdsburg tab some years back (after corporatisation).

The machines were open after the last race was run for well over 5 minutes and sharp punters took bets which were paid out!

Don't believe it?

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  • bubby
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70563
The main purpose of an audit is to give an opinion on the fair presentation of the annual financial statements and that it does not contain material misstatements. Not to locate and find fraud intentionally. That is the responsibility of SENIOR MANAGEMENT.

If AUDITORS do their planning of the audit correctly, they will have the correct audit approach to reduce their risk of fraud and error to an acceptable level. This will include testing ALL SIGNIFICANT OR UNUSUAL transactions (e.g. SIGNIFICANT an amount in excess of materiality UNUSUAL round amounts or transactions done frequently in a unusual manor), substantively, which may potentially cause the financial statements to be materially misstated. As stated, if the AUDITORS do find fraud this is either by SENIOR MANAGEMENT informing them or by picking it up through their testing of the samples. An example follows.

If the materiality set by an AUDITOR is R100 000, this means all transactions above this amounts are to be tested as it exceeds the materiality figure. All amounts below R100 000 will be tested through sampling the rest of the population. Therefore the AUDITOR will be 100% liable if fraud is identified in any of his amounts he tested as he overlooked it intentionally. An AUDITOR cannot possibly identify fraud of R100 if he did not include it in his sample. He just has to ensure the SIGNIFICANT AND UNUSUAL amounts are tested including his SAMPLES, therefore reducing his risk. The R100 will have no affect on his opinion, as it is not material and would not affect a users judgement of the AFS.

If you want every transaction to be audited then get yourself a forensic auditor, if you can AFFORD IT.

Another thing is Phumelela turnover is in the billions. If an isolate case of fraud to the value of R50 000 is identified, this will have no affect on the audit opinion or users judgement as the fraud is immaterial as long as it is not commited by SENIOR MANAGEMENT. The AUDITORS just need to inform SENIOR MANAGEMENT about it to improve their controls and to ensure that it was done on a staff level and not SENIOR MANAGEMENT level.

To conclude, the AUDITORS are only guilty if they are aware of the fraud. In other words malicious intent.

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70568
Bubby
I agree with half what you said...

The fact remains..

The major AUDIT FIRMS(so called BIG 5) all have IT division.

The main aim of the audit division is ensure that the IT division gets work.
This practise started during the 1980's when Arthur Anderson bought a tool called METHOD I...
The BIG 5 IT divisions brings in more money than the AUDIT divisions.
IT GUYS from these BIG 5 divisions are charged out at min R769ph to R2050 ph..full time..163 hours per month...12 months per year...
PRICE FIXING AMONGST the BIG 5 AUDIT FIRMS..lock them up...sorry the law does not apply...

So they all target the +840 JSE listed companies.
Only they can, as few are registred as CAT 1 AUDITORS...R450K per year for reg.
Only CAT 1 AUDITORS can audit Listed companies.

SO we resort to BLACKMAIL..

This is how it works..
someone publishes a report KING X..now KING III
the BIG 5 AUDIT DIVISION tells management that they cannot find/see any:
CHECKS AND BALANCES with the COMPUTER SYSTEMS
NO ROLE BASED SECURITY
NO NON REPUDIATION
NO SEGREGATION OF DUTIES
and, hence the balance sheets will have to be qualified..which will result in share price drops...because pension fund managers will sell the shares as the company has become a risk..and some management will be fired..

HOWEVER, IF WE GIVE A CONTRACT TO OUR IT DIVISION, to put the above in place, we will overlook the issues identified and supply you with a clean bill.

The next week..the IT division is flooded with people from the BIG 5 IT division...from R769 to R2050 per hour..

Each with a LAPTOP..
TEMPLATES...
RISK MANAGEMENT PROGRAM..
Pretty ones..
allways early..
allways leave late..
well dressed..
well groomed..
well spoken..
well educated..

BUT...CLUELESS...
so what do they do...
meetings...meetings..meetings..reports..reports..reports..keep every one out of work...a pain in the ass...all day long...but pretty..so we keep them...

As the years progressed, the BIG 5 IT Audit divisions, either bought new IT products or got the staff certified in the major application packages such as SAP.
Hence you will spot these guys a mile away.
All have laptops with a RISK MANAGEMENT package installed, that can generate wall to wall paperwork..much more than METHOD I could ever manage.


The reality..they have been at it since 1985...
by now we should have all the "CHECKS AND BALANCES" implemented..don't you think..

SO..THE AUDITORS..(THE AUDIT DIVISION with the IT DIVISION) are guilty of white collar crime......

Blackmail..
non delivery...
racketeering...

management is guilty
non delivery...

Nothing will happen with the Gambling board..
They will write a letter to Phumelela..
Phumelela CIO will reply..we have our AUDITORS XXXXXXXX supply a letter stating that we comply with all audit requirements as per the KING X and CCCCC etc.


THE FACT remains..the guys pulling the scams know that. they are protected by the system.

NEVER THE LESS..THE FACTS LIE WITHIN THE DATABASE LOG TAPES..which PHUMELELA will not release due to some corporate governace laws..

SO, IF WE CAN'T BEAT THEM..LET'S CHEAT THEM....
Sooner than later the DBA or a programmer will read this..apply for a job at the TOTE...and call me...then we are in business..

waiting patiently...

if we cant beat them..then we cheat them..they make the rules..we play by the same rules..no hard feelings..

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70569
Cancel Delay for Tote Tickets Still Problem at Some Tracks
Updated: Wednesday, September 3, 2003 11:51 AM
Posted: Wednesday, September 3, 2003 9:21 AM
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More than 50 racetracks and racing associations in the United States, as well as all facilities in Canada, have eliminated cancel delays for tote tickets, but more than 20 in the U.S. have failed to comply with the request from the Thoroughbred Racing Associations.

Cancel delays allow mutuel tellers to cancel tickets after tote systems have been closed for wagering. Betting outlets can't transmit pool information until the cancel delay has ended, so it takes longer to transmit final odds and prices. Immediate transmission of wagering data has been a goal of the TRA for some time, though the Breeders' Cup Ultra Pick 6 fraud of 2002 put it under a microscope.

In a release, the TRA said the majority of the racetracks or racing associations that couldn't meet the Sept. 2 deadline to comply have "regulatory or union contract restrictions requiring delays ranging from three to 12 seconds to cancel mutuel tickets after the close of betting." In Canada, the Canadian Pari-Mutuel Agency mandated elimination of the cancel delay, and all facilities have complied.

The list was put together after the TRA, Harness Tracks of America, American Quarter Horse Association, and American Greyhound Track Operators Association surveyed member associations. Sam Houston Race Park president Bob Bork, secretary for the TRA 2020 Committee, said the panel would attempt to get all wagering outlets on the same page.

In New York, all racetracks now have a zero-minutes cancel delay. Stacy Clifford, spokeswoman for the New York State Racing and Wagering Board, said it was a condition for 2003 licenses.

Cancel delays still exist at the following tracks and associations: Colonial Downs in Virginia; Del Mar, Fairplex Park, Oak Tree Racing Association, and Santa Anita Park in California; Fonner Park and Horsemen's Park in Nebraska; Freehold Raceway, Meadowlands, and Monmouth Park in New Jersey; Gulfstream Park in Florida; Les Bois Park in Idaho; Louisiana Downs; The Meadows, Philadelphia Park, and the Downs at Pocono in Pennsylvania; Oaklawn Park in Arkansas; Northfield Park in Ohio; Portland Meadows in Oregon; and Yavapai Downs in Arizona.

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70572
Washington Post
Computer Programmer Fired In Pick Six Investigation
By Greg Sandoval and John Scheinman
Friday, November 1, 2002; Page D01

ALBANY, N.Y., Oct. 31 -- A software programmer at Autotote, the company
responsible for the computer systems that collected and processed wagers
for Saturday's Breeders' Cup thoroughbred racing championships, manipulated
software to trigger a winning $3 million payoff for a Baltimore man,
company executives said today.

The company has fired the employee and turned over his name, as well as all
information uncovered during an internal investigation, to New York State
Police and the New York State Racing and Wagering Board, said A. Lorne
Weil, chairman and chief executive of New York-based Scientific Games
Corp., the parent company of Autotote.

Weil did not disclose whether the unidentified employee had been arrested.

He also declined to say whether the winner of Saturday's Ultra Pick Six
bet, Derrick Davis, 29, of Baltimore, had been implicated in the alleged
fraud.

"The good news, if there is any, is our detection system worked the way it
should have," Weil said in a conference call in which he declined to take
questions from reporters. "No money was paid or changed hands."

The bet placed by Davis{ndash}on a telephone keypad through his recently
opened account with the Catskill Region Off-Track Betting Corp. in New
York, and not to a live operator -- raised immediate suspicion after the
races at Arlington Park outside of Chicago. Davis isolated single horses on
his Pick Six ticket in the first four races -- including long shots that
went off at odds of 26 to 1 and 13 to 1 -- then bet all the horses in the
final two legs.

Further, Davis played the wager in a $12 denomination, which enabled him to
collect a payout of $428,392 six times, plus consolation wagers for picking
five of six races. He was the only bettor to hit the Pick Six.

The consolation payoff for hitting five of six races was $4,606.20. Each of
the 72 other holders of those tickets, which have not been paid out, should
now collect an additional $35,699.

Attempts by The Post to reach Davis were unsuccessful today. He was quoted,
however, in Thursday's New York Post as saying he was innocent of any
wrongdoing: "If they got proof that I did something wrong, then show it to
me. If not, give me my money."

Weil did not divulge any known relationship between Davis and the software
programmer, who took advantage of a glitch in the way wager information is
transmitted.

The programmer "had a password into the system and the ability to do what
he did. He could have altered the ticket internally," Weil said.

While Davis placed his winning wager around 2 p.m. Saturday, well before
the start of the first leg of the Pick Six, the Breeders' Cup Mile, the
individual data was not transferred from the Catskill OTB to the host
network at Arlington Park until after the fifth leg of the Pick Six races.

In any other bet type, the data is immediately sent to the host site. The
vast amount of data associated with the Pick Six, however, cannot be moved
from all the satellite account-wagering locations at the same time without
causing disruptions to the Autotote computer system, Weil said.

"Our people were equally certain that this bet was entered well before the
stop betting" deadline, said Weil, whose company has handled $150 billion
in wagers over the past 10 years. "I considered it absolutely impossible --
as did our technical people" to hack into the system.

Asked whether other frauds could have been perpetrated on the Autotote
system, a Scientific Games Corp. spokesman said, "We have no reason to
believe there are any other situations that require investigation."

Whether it could happen again is another question. On Saturday, Santa Anita
in Arcadia, Calif., will offer a $1 million Pick Six wager handled by
Autotote. The vulnerability in the system still exists, Weil acknowledged,
but he said that his company will be watching future races closely until a
fix can be found.

"The question is how to prevent this from happening again," Weil said.

The Jockey Club, a Kentucky-based industry organization, plans to organize
a task force to seek a way to transmit Pick Six wagering data to the host
site without delay.

The details of Davis's bet touched off a wave of skepticism among bettors.

The New York State Racing and Wagering Board received a flood of calls from
people who wanted to share their theories on how fraud might have been
committed, said Stacy Clifford, spokeswoman for the board.

The Catskill OTB received complaints as well.

"Hi . . . Can I still make a wager on the Breeders' Cup Pick Six with your
company?" read one post on the company's Internet message board.

Don Groth, president of the Catskill OTB, initially said that Davis made
his bet legally and should be paid. Today, however, he said he was "shaken
by the news."

"I deeply regret this," Groth said. "I am grateful to Autotote for removing
a human weakness from the parimutuel system."

Asked what the finding of fraud means for Davis, his customer, Groth said,
"It is unlikely he will be getting paid."

National Thoroughbred Racing Association President Tim Smith and Breeders'
Cup President D.G. Van Clief Jr., who initiated the request for a probe by
the New York State Wagering Board, could not be reached to comment.

Trading of Scientific Games Corp. stock was temporarily suspended yesterday.

Groth said he maintains confidence in the company, but is concerned about
the ability of people to penetrate what is supposed to be an airtight
system.

"We're open for business," Groth said. "We continue to have faith in the
company. The only thing I can imagine is that such a thing
in many places and it may not be a single incident."

Scheinman reported from Washington

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  • rob faux
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70576
You have your answer.......Arlington race 3: tote favourite changed after they crossed the line !!!!!!!

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70577
Welcome to Africa..
we are on AFRICA TIME..
AFRICA RULES..

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  • Chris van Buuren
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70595
Still, I have no doubt that internaly there could be people puling strings but once again it would be hard to get away with IF Phumelela are doing their jobs correctly. The fact that the tote board changes I can understand as I have discussed before.

It is quite simple...Stop people from cancelling bets prior to a race. If they do this constantly then there is a problem.

Stop people from doing something funny that can affect the outcome of a wager. If you stop them from cancelling tickets then none of us will be having this discussion now......

will Phumelela do this? of course not as it affects their bottom line...We cannot afford to upset the guys who are trying to manipulate the system. Heavens knows we need these manipulative freaks to add more leaverage to our outcomes on a daily basis so we can make more money!..................NOT!!!!!!

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  • Barry Irwin
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70619
Hotspur has the right idea.

At the Maryland tracks, once you leave the window, you cannot eliminate your wager. You are stuck with it. It is a good rule.

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  • Barry Irwin
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70620
BTW, the funniest thing I ever heard at a racetrack took place at Santa Anita Park in the press box.

There was one guy that 1) did the morning line odds, 2) prepared a graded handicap for 12 newspapers, 3) had a group of clients that he touted, and 4) had his own personal bets.

Each group had a different horse selected, either to tout or bet.

Down the homestretch, this guy was fully capable of changing rootings interest several times in the span of 25 seconds.

The great line was delivered by a writer, who said "The only way to get rid of this bastard once and for all is to put a tote machine right in front of him and do not turn it off until the field is 50 feet from the finish line! We can break him in 3 days and we'd never have to lay eyes on him again!"

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  • Chris van Buuren
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70653
Thats a funny story Barry!!!

One more thing about the tote board changing after the off and then I"m done with the subject!

In the past......I mean like 15-years ago there was an external audit placed on the closing of the races. What would happen is somebody other than tote personnel would close the race for betting as the horses jumped. This had eliminated any betting moves after the off. In fact for a while the starting judge had closed the totes. When he sent the gates crashing open, the tote machines all closed on the spot!! of course there was still data coming through the system and had to be collated before it could be co mingled but certainly no shinanigans!!

Best thing to do is stop the thugs from cancelling bets. You only have to force the rule down once or twice and these manipulators will NEVER do it again!!!!

Force of habit my friends!!!

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: Is the Tote being manipulated ?

15 years 8 months ago
#70660
Guys..


the guys cancelling the bets are the decoy's...

the real issue here is...
inside scams...IT staff....

the guys are reading this and having a good laught at us..

why..they are protected by the system..
the system..CEO..CFO..CIO..AUDITORS...will never expose them...
the share price will drop..

why should they stop..
they showed you all in race 3 yesterday..
the fav changed after the winning post..
that was not tickets being cancelled...
that was internal corrections made...by the IT staff..

take it from me..they are making millions..
phumemlela does not care..they were going to pay the money out in any case..
its not their money being scammed..
its the public's money being scammed..

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