CTS live streaming sales 2018

I see that there are a few sparks flying here over bloodstock agents.

I agree - let's not slander John Freeman but let's just critically examine the role of the bloodstock agent in the industry:

Why would you use or need a bloodstock agent?

The bloodstock agent has been around for a long time. I'm no expert on the history of horse racing but their existence probably traces back centuries.

Some of their core functions would be :

Identification and sourcing of yearlings for prospective owners
Ditto for older horses and breeding stock

Prospective owners might also use a bloodstock agent when they lack the confidence, desire, time or 'expertise' to select their own horses and/or want to sell horses which they already own.

Bloodstock agents have remarkably managed to survive (prosper?) despite a number of modern developments which should have consigned them to history :

1.) They are now one of the very few unregulated, unlicensed occupations. I know of almost no other 'brokers' (which is what they are) who do not need to sit an examination to prove their competence and qualify for some sort of licensing before practising. Pretty much anyone can hang out a shingle and start operating.

2.) The bloodstock agent would have been a lot more valuable to a prospective client before the rise in technology. For example :

With GPS I can find any stud farm in the world within seconds. A decade or two ago it might have a been a slow and painful process to do that unless I knew informed people.

The internet will allow me to quickly interact with a seller or breeder and often see both a video and photo of my fancy.

I can arrange my own vet to examine a yearling (if that is what I want to do) and co-ordinate the examination with the seller.

The downside :

1.) Are bloodstock agents significantly more successful at picking 'winners' than ordinary mortals? I would suggest only fractionally so. The difference is in the premium you will pay for their input! Bloodstock agents inevitably get caught up with many of the glamour horses so if your selection turns into a train wreck it's going to hurt. A lot.

2.) Agents are remarkably prone to Alzheimer's when it comes to questions about their full historical records. Due to the nature of horse racing only one horse can be overall champion. So the agent will often take out a full page in Sporting Post to remind you of their 'winners' whilst conveniently forgetting that the failures they selected would fill the entire remainder of the publication.

3.) Sadly bloodstock agents have often been known to represent the interests of the seller rather then the buyer who commissioned them. It's seldom a good idea to tell an agent what your limit is on a horse as you will be unlikely to get it for a penny less once all the interested parties have conferred.

4.) Bloodstock agents and sales are inevitably about OP Money (Other People's Money). Inspect the sales list and you will find very few of the really expensive lots signed for by their new owners. The latter normally bail at about the R500k level; which is probably pretty close to the real value of any SA horse. And particularly SA horses!

5.) Racing has always been a magnet for funny money. Heads of state & gangsters/fraudsters love it as it allows them to indulge themselves with money that they acquired either by birth right or by a multitude of Ponzi type schemes. A legitimate owner is usually characterised by limits and boundaries. The gangsters just get bigger and bigger until the whole charade implodes.

6.) My 'coming of age' with Bloodstock Agents happened many, many years ago at a sale long since forgotten. I unwittingly plonked myself down on one of those mini grandstands which they put out at sales. Unbeknown to me I was seated directly in front of an agent in earnest conversation with another individual who I did not know. I wasn't planning to eavesdrop but I could not help myself as the conversation was becoming increasingly animated.

I may not get the wording 100% correct but the agent's statement went something like this :

'.........I cannot continue promoting Mistral Dancer for very much longer. Buyers are starting to get suspicious'.

Caveat emptor.

I have followed the activities of both parties as they emerged onto the racing scene. But my post earlier was defending John Freeman from completely unsubstantiated nonsense from a writer called "Jurgs".

As it happens I do know what a "cabal" is, and playing semantics does not defuse the obvious slander implied in that post. I don't want to give "Jurgs" any more airplay as my main point is that if you name names in public, then stand up yourself in public.

So from the avatar it looks like Jurgs has been banned. Personally I feel this is draconian, why not just ask him for his details? What further confuses me is where did he slander Freeman? Says he was part of a cabal and would be affected by Joostes bruised fingers. I assume the bruised fingers relate to Joostes theft, and being slammed in the till, as in being caught. I have seen far worse allowed on here?

Bob I dont know Jurgs nor have I ever communicated with him besides on this open forum so I have no reason to defend the guy. I will however ask what exactly did he post to get this ban? Something removed?

Did not notice that there are 18 Mares for sale after the CTS Sale - All sold under CTS as vendor . Looks like all imported mares - ex you know who

Over the Air wrote: So from the avatar it looks like Jurgs has been banned. Personally I feel this is draconian, why not just ask him for his details? What further confuses me is where did he slander Freeman? Says he was part of a cabal and would be affected by Joostes bruised fingers. I assume the bruised fingers relate to Joostes theft, and being slammed in the till, as in being caught. I have seen far worse allowed on here?

Bob I dont know Jurgs nor have I ever communicated with him besides on this open forum so I have no reason to defend the guy. I will however ask what exactly did he post to get this ban? Something removed?

Hi, he can take responsibility of his posts by posting under a verified username

He/She has another account active they also used to post under which had a real name attached

Warren Laird wrote: Did not notice that there are 18 Mares for sale after the CTS Sale - All sold under CTS as vendor . Looks like all imported mares - ex you know who

....did a spiel on these on another thread(0h Susanna)....now that they(Klawervlei) may not be as deep in the dwang as they/we all thought they were.....I think that some of these may now be retained by the farm ....that is if the paper trail does not lead right back to Mayfair or Jooste directly.....there are some amazing pedigree's amongst that lot..... and I await in anticipation to see who buys and what transpires.....

Over the Air wrote: There are some interesting purchasers. Its clear that international buyers are more prominent. Barry Irwin returns. Hong Kong Jockey Club, Amanda Skiffington. What really interested me was the purchase of two horses by Mayfair Speculators, later changed to Rainbow Beach Trading aka "crocodile tears" Chris van Niekerk. The schemes continue it seems.

What horses? Was asked to ask you

They were less polite than me

Bob I went to have a look at how the sale was going around 9pm yesterdsy evening. There were two horses listed as purchased by Mayfair. When I went on in the morning the changes had been made. They can be as impolite as they wish what I say is the truth. Clearly the answers will be found if the IT boffs are asked.

Warren Laird wrote: My pick of the sale 180 - Rocket - think R500K about right but you never know . Could be way off the mark.

Nothing wrong with dreaming

R800k to Glen Kotzen - Tempted to take 10 % at least - Going to have to have control on this one .

Over the Air wrote: Bob I went to have a look at how the sale was going around 9pm yesterdsy evening. There were two horses listed as purchased by Mayfair. When I went on in the morning the changes had been made. They can be as impolite as they wish what I say is the truth. Clearly the answers will be found if the IT boffs are asked.

Not from me

I think the answer to the “Mayfair speculator” purchases lies in where OTA looked. The results at the bottom of the live feed was the 2017 results last night. That error was only corrected this morning when it was changed to the 2018 results.

soft falling rain must be producing stunning babies - his babies are going for bombs so far.

with the exception of SFR all the other stallions are going for fair value.

the top 6 stallions offspring are well deserved in the higher averages.

very fair sale so far

Sylvester wrote: soft falling rain must be producing stunning babies - his babies are going for bombs so far.

with the exception of SFR all the other stallions are going for fair value.

the top 6 stallions offspring are well deserved in the higher averages.

very fair sale so far

True - However I must say when I went to the farm , as wealing the Flower Alley's looked head and shoulders above the SFR baby's .

I have huge faith in SFR and cant wait for Nationals when the Wilgerbosdrift & Mauritzfontein draft come up for sale .