CTS live streaming sales 2018

My pick of the sale 180 - Rocket - think R500K about right but you never know . Could be way off the mark.

Nothing wrong with dreaming

Tony Mincione wrote:

Jurgs wrote:

Muhtiman wrote: ....sorry only joking about Mr Freeman......he of all people must be very glad that Jooste is not around....now he can really ply his trade....and make sure of those big commissions he is paid.... :dry:

Dont be crazy he is part of the cabal in every way and Joostes bruised fingers are definitely not good news for him

Any proof or evidence? Anything? This is the single worst behavior on a forum. If you going to slander someone, the very least you must do is sign your name so they can get back to you properly.

Tony let me not put words in Jurgs mouth, but your outrage is strange seeing that everything alleged has been acknowledged. Taken from Wikipedia:

A cabal is a group of people united in some close design together, usually to promote their private views or interests in an ideology, state, or other community, often by intrigue, usually unbeknown to persons outside their group. The use of this term usually carries strong connotations of shadowy corners, back rooms and insidious influence

I reckon that just about sums the CTS crowd up, particularly the manipulation of sales prices and bolstering of averages for Klawervlei interests. Or do you have a different perspective? Go read some comments of Barry Irwin on your site and let's discuss.

Tony Mincione wrote:

Jurgs wrote:

Muhtiman wrote: ....sorry only joking about Mr Freeman......he of all people must be very glad that Jooste is not around....now he can really ply his trade....and make sure of those big commissions he is paid.... :dry:

Dont be crazy he is part of the cabal in every way and Joostes bruised fingers are definitely not good news for him

Any proof or evidence? Anything? This is the single worst behavior on a forum. If you going to slander someone, the very least you must do is sign your name so they can get back to you properly.

....Yip...that is why I made it clear that I was only jesting ....our John can be a handful and is the ultimate drama queen and will be sure take action to keep his name out of the mud.....

Warren Laird wrote: My pick of the sale 180 - Rocket - think R500K about right but you never know . Could be way off the mark.

Nothing wrong with dreaming

......the 2 WAW I had my eye on averaged R500K each.....5 times more than I expected them to go for.....no bargains there for sure... :blush:

Over the Air wrote:

Tony Mincione wrote:

Jurgs wrote:

Muhtiman wrote: ....sorry only joking about Mr Freeman......he of all people must be very glad that Jooste is not around....now he can really ply his trade....and make sure of those big commissions he is paid.... :dry:

Dont be crazy he is part of the cabal in every way and Joostes bruised fingers are definitely not good news for him

Any proof or evidence? Anything? This is the single worst behavior on a forum. If you going to slander someone, the very least you must do is sign your name so they can get back to you properly.

Tony let me not put words in Jurgs mouth, but your outrage is strange seeing that everything alleged has been acknowledged. Taken from Wikipedia:

A cabal is a group of people united in some close design together, usually to promote their private views or interests in an ideology, state, or other community, often by intrigue, usually unbeknown to persons outside their group. The use of this term usually carries strong connotations of shadowy corners, back rooms and insidious influence

I reckon that just about sums the CTS crowd up, particularly the manipulation of sales prices and bolstering of averages for Klawervlei interests. Or do you have a different perspective? Go read some comments of Barry Irwin on your site and let's discuss.

.....Jurgs you are a gambling man....If Mr Freeman does not attempt to find you....then you just may see one or two of his purchases in yellow silks with black epaulets....

....but you are wrong about John.....he hated being outbid by Mayfair and often bowed out when they put up a hand.....

I also enjoy watching i folded the book corners on

Lot
18/23/42/72/87/89/187/197/201

At this stage

800k, 2.5m, 650k, 1.8m, not sold and 300k

Three to go

.....Jurgs you are a gambling man....If Mr Freeman does not attempt to find you....then you just may see one or two of his purchases in yellow silks with black epaulets....

....but you are wrong about John.....he hated being outbid by Mayfair and often bowed out when they put up a hand..... [/quote]

Correct - If anything I have a hunch it was for his good friend Jack Mitchell

Warren Laird wrote: Watched the entire sale , as I expected some really good looking horses.

A couple of not solds where they got +/- R500K for which surprised me a bit. See Last Winter sister not sold at R550k.

Although the catelogue may not be that strong in writting when you see these specimens , you have a change of attitude. Some on the sale also should not be there .

All in all a good night and look forward to the second half this afternoon.

Hi Warren
I had placed a reserve of R600k for lot 4.
Always difficult when one is so early in the sale.

Over the Air wrote:

Tony Mincione wrote:

Jurgs wrote:

Muhtiman wrote: ....sorry only joking about Mr Freeman......he of all people must be very glad that Jooste is not around....now he can really ply his trade....and make sure of those big commissions he is paid.... :dry:

Dont be crazy he is part of the cabal in every way and Joostes bruised fingers are definitely not good news for him

Any proof or evidence? Anything? This is the single worst behavior on a forum. If you going to slander someone, the very least you must do is sign your name so they can get back to you properly.

Tony let me not put words in Jurgs mouth, but your outrage is strange seeing that everything alleged has been acknowledged. Taken from Wikipedia:

A cabal is a group of people united in some close design together, usually to promote their private views or interests in an ideology, state, or other community, often by intrigue, usually unbeknown to persons outside their group. The use of this term usually carries strong connotations of shadowy corners, back rooms and insidious influence

I reckon that just about sums the CTS crowd up, particularly the manipulation of sales prices and bolstering of averages for Klawervlei interests. Or do you have a different perspective? Go read some comments of Barry Irwin on your site and let's discuss.

.....what gets my goat is the Pied Piper's twitter feed scrolling on TT....the usual smug and surreptitious advertising for Klawervlei.....wonder if they pay full price for that banner....had the sh!t really hit the fan....he would be making an alternative plan.....suddenly not so Switzerland now ......since Klawervlei/CTS seem to have given a big breather.... :S

PeterD wrote:

Warren Laird wrote: Watched the entire sale , as I expected some really good looking horses.

A couple of not solds where they got +/- R500K for which surprised me a bit. See Last Winter sister not sold at R550k.

Although the catelogue may not be that strong in writting when you see these specimens , you have a change of attitude. Some on the sale also should not be there .

All in all a good night and look forward to the second half this afternoon.

Hi Warren
I had placed a reserve of R600k for lot 4.
Always difficult when one is so early in the sale.

Lovelty filly - so,etimes they are not meant to sell. Therefore the stop at 550k , you will put her together very easly .

Warren Laird wrote:

PeterD wrote:

Warren Laird wrote: Watched the entire sale , as I expected some really good looking horses.

A couple of not solds where they got +/- R500K for which surprised me a bit. See Last Winter sister not sold at R550k.

Although the catelogue may not be that strong in writting when you see these specimens , you have a change of attitude. Some on the sale also should not be there .

All in all a good night and look forward to the second half this afternoon.

Hi Warren
I had placed a reserve of R600k for lot 4.
Always difficult when one is so early in the sale.

Lovelty filly - so,etimes they are not meant to sell. Therefore the stop at 550k , you will put her together very easly .

....but keep a bigger piece of her....she will ensure that bloodline at stud.....

This is for Mr Mincione. Took me a long time to find so I hope he reads it carefully.

In a lettor to the Editor, Team Valor’s Barry Irwin has his say about ‘salesgate’.

Team Valor International buys and sells millions of rand worth of yearlings every year at the sales in South Africa. This year alone we sold 10 million rand worth of yearlings. We maintain a band of 15 broodmares, we own shares in stallions and we stand our own stallions. So as you can see we are heavily invested in a market that is thousands of miles away from our home base in the bluegrass of Kentucky in the United States of America

I have been attending the sales for the last 10 years.

During this time I have come to know the players, the sellers and the buyers.

I like South Africa as a place to buy, sell, race and raise Thoroughbreds and I like it as a place to develop stallions.

What I don’t like at all are the sharp, ruthless and cut throat business practices of the people behind the CTHS sales.

Look, South Africa–not unlike many locales where Thoroughbred racing has been conducted for more than 100 years–is fighting for its very existence in the face of changing demographics and unprecedented competition for the betting and entertainment dollar.

The last thing it needs to do is weaken itself by conducting a relentless power grab of the very organization that forms the basis of the breed–its own breeders organization and sales company.

When those behind CTHS wanted to conduct a sale in Cape Town, it was regrettable, but understandable. Let’s face it, most of the best lots are raised in the Western Cape and having these yearlings make the long, arduous trip from there to Germiston was asking a lot of them and their owners.

But for these same business people to now go head to head with the BSA in their own backyard in the environs outside of Johannesburg is simply absurd, unfair and insensitive.

I have sold and bought in both venues. I know the pros and cons. Do I wish the BSA conducted a more business friendly sale free of the risk of not getting paid or getting paid very late? Sure, who doesn’t. But that it no reason to abandon them or put them out of business.

I am not alone in this attitude. Without listing a roll call, the number of prominent names that also share this opinion reads like a list of former supporters and directors of the Cape sales outfit.

You folks do not raise enough animals, you do not have enough buyers and you do not have enough participants that seem committed to paying their training and veterinary invoices in a timely manner to have two sales companies competing against each other in the same locale.

It is now patently obvious, as I thought it had been from the onset, that the Cape Town crew wants to put the BSA out of business.

If they are successful, which I assume they will be because of the inability or willingness of the BSA to guarantee payment to vendors, the Cape group will have a monopoly. If a fellow like Mick Goss can cross over given what has transpired over the years between him and the key member of the Cape group, anybody is capable of switching sides.

A monopoly in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but having observed sales world wide for 5 decades, I can tell you that what is bad is when there is one sales company in town and they engage in practices so questionable and sharp as to be discussed at length by anybody with only a passing familiarity of the sales scene.

Running horses through a sale simply to gain it eligibility to a sales sponsored stakes race, running up prices to boost averages, among other shoddy practices, are so transparent as to be laughable. These practices do nothing but demean the entire process.

Right now I have a substantial investment in South Africa.

I must be honest and say that I am no longer comfortable with my investment based on the way things are starting to go.

But you know what? I don’t think those guys that run the Cape outfit give a damn, because their practices tell me that instead of encouraging inclusion, they would be happy to control every single aspect of racing, breeding and sales so that they can have a game of 5 handed poker between them selves.


Barry Irwin
President & CEO
Team Valor International
barry@teamvalor.com