Scottsville 5 Place Investigation

@ rob

yes why not. business is business. Tabcorp might have looked at the rebate and done the math and worked out that even with a $1-05 $1-10 min payout the case stacked up.

I know a guy that was the biggest coca cola distrubutor in africa. He sold coke at cost. When he started this process he undercut everyone from zim to morroco. Asif rocked the coke distribution world. they could not work out how he could sell at cost and make a profit, so they (his competitors) never looked into it. They simply hoped he would implode and go bankrupt. By the time they woke up he was moving $10 million worth of coke a month.





his profit came from the 5% rebate he got from settling invoices within 30 days.


So there are many ways to make profit.

So tabcorps "softare" might not ever go down to $0-60 as our tote does. It might be like the yank tote and stop at $1-05. For some punters this is attractive and they go into it eyes open.

SA tote is actually the problem. Rule number 1 of betting is

1: if you can't win then you cant lose.

This is not the case as you can lose without ever having the chance of winning.

the other way to "prove" this theory is if SA tote made the minimum payout R1-10 i bet you the place pools would soar....

@Easy, sure we know how loss leaders are used to make moguls rich.....I had a mate that got stuck out by P&P in that he developed and made a plastic item that held a plastic shopping bag for use as a makeshift dustbin. He got a massive order from P&P and went into production....jumped the gun ordered a brand new BMW Cabriolet.....within a few weeks he is in a pay out queue at P&P and sees the item he has sold to them at roughly his cost......he then contacts the buyer who reminds him to check the payment terms.....he says by the time we pay you we have the cash in hand and we will funding the next novelle idea to come our way.....:S....stuck him away before he could pay for his raw materials, tooling costs and toll production facility....

.....but I digress ....how come the other place payouts were not affected after the 60cents were rounded up to a RAND.....I remember that when we were told that a punter could never loose his stake on a place bet because they guarenteed a minimum payout of a RAND ......they took money from the pool ie money on other horses to make up the difference....:S....yet none of the places on the 2 Kotzen horses moved from the provisional payout where 2 horses displayed 60 cents....to the official payout where the winner paid a RAND for a place.....surely something fishy here....:

But surely a guaranteed minimum dividend is merely sponsored by all the other potential dividends? And if that "guaranteed" punt is a losing punt then its whoop whoop boooooooom dividends for the winning results.

TAB MEDIA RELEASE
SUBJECT: Tabcorp customer generates huge TAB Place pool
DATE: Monday 18 February 2013
RELEASED BY: PHUMELELA GAMING AND LEISURE LIMITED

Bets totalling more than R3 million with Australian tote betting company
Tabcorp generated a record TAB Place pool for an ordinary race meeting in
South Africa in Race 5 at Scottsville on Sunday.
The net Place pool on the race was R3.1 million and 98.2% of the pool was
wagered by a Tabcorp account holder in Australia. Where possible, Tabcorp
commingles all bets on South African racing into TAB pools.
The bulk of the Tabcorp customer’s Place bets on the race were on first and
second favourites, Chosen Goddess and Orange Blossom respectively, with
some R1.35 million net bet on each. More than R80,000 net was also wagered
on each of Dirtydealin Mamma, Mrs Ching and Fantasy Rock.
Orange Blossom duly won and Fantasy Rock ran third, but Chosen Goddess
could manage only fourth and did not qualify for a Place payout, resulting
in a significant overall loss for the Tabcorp account holder.
The race was scheduled to start 2.30pm, but only got underway 95 seconds
later which was 28 seconds after the last of the Australian punter’s bets.
Due to queries from several customers, TAB would like to point out yet
again that all pools on South African races close when the runners break
from the starting gate. No bets, locally or internationally, can be taken
after that.
It takes up to 30 seconds after pools close for all bets struck before the
off to be processed by TAB’s Amtote betting system and a maximum of 30
seconds after that for the final provisional payouts to be displayed.
Vee Moodley, Executive Director Sports Betting at Phumelela, pointed out
that the Tabcorp customer’s bets had created value in the TAB Place pool on
all horses apart from the first and second favourites. “There was time for
South African punters to assess the value created by the huge bets on the
top two in the betting. We welcome international participation in TAB pools
because overall our South African customers benefit from this
participation,” Moodley said.
“I would like to add that on the face of it the bets taken by the
Australian punter do not make sense and consequently we have requested
Tabcorp to provide with us with an explanation,” he said.

Well done Vee the fact that you regard that there is or might be a problem is a step in the right direction.

But Vee says "There was time for South African punters to assess the value created by the huge bets on the top two in the betting".

How could there have been "time"? Surely, most people's bets would have already been struck? The race was scheduled to start 2.30pm, but only got underway 95 seconds later which was 28 seconds after the last of the Australian punter’s bets.". And, furthermore, "It takes up to 30 seconds after pools close for all bets struck before the off to be processed by TAB’s Amtote betting system and a maximum of 30
seconds after that for the final provisional payouts to be displayed". Sorry, dont see the time..

“There was time for
South African punters to assess the value created by the huge bets on the
top two in the betting."

Absolute and utter nonsense.The tote updates virtually always only come through when the horses are already half way through the race.

The bulk of the Tabcorp customer’s Place bets on the race were on first and
second favourites, Chosen Goddess and Orange Blossom respectively, with
some R1.35 million net bet on each. More than R80,000 net was also wagered
on each of Dirtydealin Mamma, Mrs Ching and Fantasy Rock.

Someone spends R3 million on a single race,and backs 5 horses for a place in the same race.Now I really can't work this out.This whole thing gets stranger and stranger.

Vee Moodley is just a saleman, his statements are a farkin joke!!!

Hi

Co-mingling will increase the amount in the Pools and for this to be a benefit to local Punters they MUST be given time to analyse the situation. It apparantly takes up to 60 seconds for these overseas bets to reflect on the Tote. So why not have a cut off of say 3 min (180 sec) before the scheduled off time, why is this happening in the Soccer 13, shows it can be done. I agree with what has been said on this thread, on the Tote we are investing in the dark.

To me this is mind boggling as R3m is not petty cash in any ones language.

I live in Australia and this topic has just be brought to my attention. In Australia certain "privileged punters" , with annual turnover thresholds in the millions of Australian dollars, are offered rebates on their betting. Those rebates can be upto 10% on exotic bets but might be 5% on win and place bets.. To maintain those rebates those high value punters will often a select horse they consider certain of running a place and invest heavily on that horse to run a place. Black Caviar, the unbeaten champion horse who has won 23 successive races is a prime example. When the horse runs she is usually around $1.04 to win, so to back her to run a place is virtually assured, so these privileged punters might invest $ AUD 400,000 on the horse a place. As the horse has won every start they have probably won $AUD 20,000 ( 5% rebate ) each time the horse has placed. By placing such large bets they have not only won , but have contributed to maintaining their turnover levels, which of course, enables them to retain their rebates.
The race in question in South Africa is a common occurence in Australia and the practice is highly controversial, as one group , who receive the rebates is reputed to turnover $AUD 2,000,000,000 per year. With an exchange rate od 9.6 that is SR19,200,000,000 per year.
The most controversial issue with these rebates as these privileged punters are advantaged over all other punters as they are able to place bets with less chance of loss . For example they are able to arbitrage their bets to break even on the pari mutuels, there are three stand - alone pari mutuel entities in Australia, yet receive a rebate upto 10% to ensure a healthy profit.