Betting structures

Dave...Vee.. thanks for the post....If we see where you are coming from...we can see what you hope to achieve....(tu)

Very happy that Vee has responded but am still concerned that the response to question 5 is vague and ambigeous and I doubt that is coincidence.
"over the last 5 years "P" have averaged 24.5% take-out"..........very shrewd answer!
IMO that half answers the question without declaring a hidden factor in the co-mingling model.......Is that "average" continuing to rise?..........lol
We have never had the answer to whether additional commisions for co-mingling increases the take-out (it is the only explanation for 5/1 shots paying R3.50 and R1 a place!)

The original promise by Saftote was that bigger co-mingled pools would make for better payouts and that was logical...............so why has the opposite been true........only fraud or an increased take-out makes sense and they assure us that the fraud angle has been investigated and discounted............tell us without the spin ..........what is the current take-out on ALL the various pools????

Just something I was wondering about .. Is it not better for Phumelela to have multiple winners rather than large winners to increase turnover? If the P6 pays a bar to 1 ticket that money is gone ... but a smaller div to many tickets will be bet again .. Surely the more favs that win means reinvestment and the 24.5% eats away at the winnings? I'm only asking because I often "read" and "hear" that Phum conspire to have carryovers to increase turnover - What do you guys think.

My thought would be that punters like to hear about big winners and that attracts the majority, small example is a gambler won 25 grand on one of these low payout machines in a local pub and people are waiting almost an hour to get a seat on one of the 5 machines, might be silly to the clever lads on the site but it works, the Pretoria country club have lucky draws on Friday for members and non members for about 5 grand and you cannot believe the crowds they are pulling, so to answer BIG prizes pulls the punters whether it be a carry over pick 6, lotto 20 Million people want a ticket.

if you want to see a big boom in exotics then take out couplings in the pick 6 .......more punters go for the jackpot because their is so much more value ......do it with the pick 6 also.........

nobody play lotto to win R24 ...they play it for the R24 MILLION ......bigger the value the more interest their will be

I have always said that all Pick 6 carryover's should accumulate during the month and have one big carryover once a month. I believe that a 4 of 5 million carryover if well advertised would bring new players to the game trying to catch a big Pick 6 dividend.

shrek Wrote:

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> I have always said that all Pick 6 carryover's
> should accumulate during the month and have one
> big carryover once a month. I believe that a 4 of
> 5 million carryover if well advertised would bring
> new players to the game trying to catch a big Pick
> 6 dividend.


Can't understand why this has not been implemented long ago :S

As for couplings, to each his own - for me as a punter there is no value in the JP and if they take away the couplings from the P6, I will stop taking one; it's no use to me that the JP now averages R5k or R10k or whatever the average is, I still get nothing back if I don't catch it; but I can understand that some people would prefer to 'gamble'; for example take a bet with a 5% chance of winning R10k, for me I'd rather take a bet with a 50% chance of winning R1k

the aim of the tote as a business is to do turnover - amazingly high payouts do not suite them - money needs to be churned so that they can earn revenue - the more people that play race by race the better

mr hawaii Wrote:

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> the aim of the tote as a business is to do
> turnover - amazingly high payouts do not suite
> them - money needs to be churned so that they can
> earn revenue - the more people that play race by
> race the better

The reality is as you say, that business is best if you paying out small dividends across the board which are then re-invested for the next spin of the wheel. Eventually the grind eats up the punters float and he needs to re-invest fresh money.

Massive payouts go to a small number and they walk away with the money. However, you need bets that can pay out big to feed the hope of the compulsive gambler, if dividends stay small reality sets in and spoils the fun.

It's amazing to me how many economic truths have been ignored by the operators from a gambling and betting perspective for so long now. My 2nd job in life was working for the off course tote when I was in Std 7 (always looked old for my age), so I was there as the innovations came in from computerisation and off courses staying open during races, through IGN and betting from home etc, but so many basics have been ignored with the betting product.

I have to agree with Jack's overall assessment .............."P" do not seem to have the ability to address the BIG picture.

We should soon read an interview with Mr Du Plessis where he again explains that the failure of local racing continues to be the open bet...(same old same old)

I would have thought that it was time to introduce a strategy attempting to force the bookmakers to engage and compromise and the only way to do that is to threaten their existence ,or at least their comfort zone.............perhaps "P" needs fresh management who can address the the issue of turning around the local product!

Thanx Vee, for your reply (at last!) and plainly we differ on several points. You have made certain claims which do not always co-incide with my own perspective. But I see you do have some support for your jackpot decision but I notice that no-one has responded to my observation over the number of times trainers, even the biggest, with multiple entries in a race, so often nominate the wrong horse as their best bet.
But you are not quite clear as to whether the commissions from all bets, including soccer and foreign races, are distributed similarly to those earned on local races.
David

Why not have 2 Pick6 options?? 1 with the current rules and 1 with the current Jackpot rules?

Turnover WILL increase as punters will more than likely play both options and over time it will be interesting to see what the majority of punters like