2011 Cape Premier Sale ran by CTS ???

Last night on the Breeding to Win programme the CTS guys Todd and Knowles said that CTS ran the 2011 Cape Premier Sale and how happy they are with the graduates of the sale etc

The TBA ran the 2011 Cape premier sale.

SO how can the CTS claim it as their own?

That's not the whole truth.

The TBA got included after the sale had been booked and paid for way in advance. A political decision based on the fact that all the vendors to any sale are all members of the TBA anyway caused a joint operation and guaranteed the TBA their tradition cut. But it started off as a sale the TBA did not want to happen. There have always been people who want their best horses sold near home in the Cape, and others who feel the horses must be taken to the money in JHB.

I think the TBA should be quite flattered - isn't imitation the finest form of flattery()

Good luck to MDK with Soft Falling Rain - irrespective of where he was sold I think he is going win some big races...maybe other trainers can claim him as their own when we wins?!

GUYS MY CATALOGUE SAY THAT THE TBA HELD THE CTS SALE IN 2011. AND ALL THOSE HORSES MENTIONED ON LAST NIGHT SHOW , WAS FROM THE THEIR SALE .

I sold a few horses on that sale.

The idea and financing of a sale in Cape Town city centre was not sanctioned by the TBA, so individuals paid and set up the sale. After that fact, the TBA came aboard once the sale was going to happen with or without them. I clearly remember having to make the decision where I wanted to sell my horses and consider what the side effects may be. It ended up being a sale that was run under the TBA banner, but everything about that sale, good or bad, should never be credited to our Breeders Association. A city sale may even be copied internationally, but the TBA was opposed and it caused lots of anxiety.

PS But how does a venue where a horse is sold make any difference to anything whatsoever? A certain "type" of sale might make a difference, perhaps.

Jack Dash Wrote:

---

> I sold a few horses on that sale.
>
> The idea and financing of a sale in Cape Town city
> centre was not sanctioned by the TBA, so
> individuals paid and set up the sale. After that
> fact, the TBA came aboard once the sale was going
> to happen with or without them. I clearly
> remember having to make the decision where I
> wanted to sell my horses and consider what the
> side effects may be. It ended up being a sale
> that was run under the TBA banner, but everything
> about that sale, good or bad, should never be
> credited to our Breeders Association. A city sale
> may even be copied internationally, but the TBA
> was opposed and it caused lots of anxiety.

The TBA had to be included as CTS did not have the rights to promote the breed under the "breeding act".....have all the bumf on the subject and posted it on another website.....when I got time I will get it....But ever so typical of the industry to lay claim to to champions....
just like the way Pierre Jourdan was bred at Summerhill while the dam was bought at a Cape sale with him in the belly....an agent for Shadwell paid for her and he PJ was born and raised at Summerhill.....Igugu was pinhooked from Ozz and schooled for the RTR by Summerhill....today it does not matter who is the breeder or from which sale it is bought from....local champions are more an act of chance than actually a planned mating.....:

Basically the CTS cannot do anything without the TBA sanction based on the act below- The TBA is the only registered thoroughbred breed society


ANIMAL IMPROVEMENT ACT 62 OF 1998

ACT
To provide for the breeding, identification and utilisation of genetically superior animals in order to improve the production and performance of animals in the interest of the Republic; and to provide for matters connected therewith.

1 Definitions
In this Act, unless the context indicates otherwise-
'advertisement' in relation to an animal or genetic material and in relation to an inseminator, semen collector, embryo collector, embryo transferor, animal breeders' society or registering authority means any written, illustrated, visual or other descriptive material or verbal statement, communication, representation or reference which is brought to the notice of a member of the public and which is intended to promote the sale or encourage the use of such animal or genetic material, or is intended to offer the services of an inseminator, semen collector, embryo collector, embryo transferor, animal breeders' society or registering authority; and 'advertise' has a corresponding meaning;
'animal' means a kind of animal or an animal of a specified breed of such kind of animal which has in terms of section 2 been declared as an animal for the purposes of this Act;
'animal breeders' society' means a group of persons promoting the breeding, the recording or registration, the genetic improvement and the use of a kind of animal or an animal of a specified breed of such kind of animal, determining and applying breed standards, recommending in its sole discretion the recording or registration of an animal or a specified breed of a kind of animal bred in or imported into the Republic, and who is registered in terms of section 8 (7) (a) (i);
'animal improvement' means the scientifically based identification of genetically superior animals by means of the integrated registration and genetic information system or in a manner approved by the registrar and the discerning use thereof to improve the production or performance ability of the animal population in the interest of the Republic;
'appeal board' means an appeal board specified in section 23;
'breed' means a population of animals which produces progeny possessing a high degree of genetic stability as evidenced by identifiable uniformity in breed standards and performance;
'breeder' means the owner of a breeding female animal at the time of natural or artificial conception or at the birth of progeny;
'breed standards' means a written set of phenotypic or genotypic standards of excellence determined and applied in terms of the constitution of an animal breeders' society for a kind of animal;
'centre' means premises registered in terms of section 8 (6) (b) for the collection, evaluation, processing, packing, labelling, storing and sale of semen, embryos or ova, as the case may be, of certain kinds of animal;
'Department' means the Department of Agriculture in the national government;
'Director-General' means the Director-General of the Department;
'donor animal' means an animal which has been approved in terms of section 8 (6) (c) for the collection of genetic material;
'embryo' means a fertilised ovum of an animal;
'embryo collector' means a person who collects, evaluates, processes, packs or stores genetic material, or who carries out the artificial insemination or the transferring of ova or embryos into recipient female animals and who is registered as such in terms of section 8 (6) (a) in respect of the kind of animal for which he or she has completed the prescribed course of instruction;
'embryo transfer' means the act of implanting an ovum or embryo in a female animal;
'embryo transferor' means a person who carries out the transferring of ova or embryos into recipient female animals and who is registered as such in terms of section 8 (6) (a) in respect of the kind of animal for which he or she has completed the prescribed course of instruction;
'export' means to take out or send an animal or genetic material from the Republic to a country or territory outside the Republic or to cause an animal or genetic material to be so taken or sent out;
'genetic material' means ova, embryos, semen and any other material originating from an animal through which the hereditary factors of such animal can be transferred;
'import' means to bring an animal or genetic material from outside the Republic into the Republic or to cause an animal or genetic material to be so brought into the Republic;
'import agent' means a person who imports genetic material on behalf of another person and who is registered as such in terms of section 8 (6) (a);
'inseminator' means a person who carries out the artificial insemination of animals and who is registered as such in terms of section 8 (6) (a) in respect of the kind of animal for which he or she has completed the prescribed course of instruction;
'integrated registration and genetic information system' means the computer system which has been established in co-operation with the Department to integrate the pedigrees and performance data of animals;
'landrace' means a specified breed of a kind of animal indigenous to or developed in the Republic;
'Minister' means the minister responsible for agriculture;
'officer' means an officer as defined in section 1 (1) of the Public Service Act, 1994 (Proclamation 103 of 1994), read with section 1 of the Public Servant Amendment Act, 1996 (Act 13 of 1996);
'ovum' means the ovum of an animal;
'prescribed' means prescribed by regulation;
'register' means the register kept in terms of section 5;
'registering authority' means an animal breeders' society or a group of animal breeders' societies which is registered as such in terms of section 8 (7) (a) (ii);
'registrar' means the officer designated as Registrar of Animal Improvement in terms of section 3;
'regulation' means a regulation made under this Act;
'scheme' means a scheme established in terms of section 20;
'sell' includes agree to sell, offer, advertise, keep, expose, transmit, convey, transport, or deliver for sale within or outside the Republic or exchange or dispose of or deliver to any person in any manner, whether for a consideration or otherwise, and 'sale' has a corresponding meaning;
'semen' means the semen of an animal;
'semen collector' means a person who collects, evaluates, processes, packs or stores semen, or who carries out the artificial insemination of an animal, and who is registered as such in terms of section 8 (6) (a) in respect of the kind of animal for which he or she has completed the prescribed course of instruction;
'stud book animal' means an animal registered or recorded in the herd book kept by a registering authority; and 'stud animal', 'thoroughbred animal', 'registered animal' and 'recorded animal' has a corresponding meaning;
'this Act' includes the regulations; and
'veterinarian' means a person registered in terms of the Veterinary and Para-Veterinary Professions Act, 1982 (Act 19 of 1982), to practise a veterinary profession as defined in section 1 of that Act.


11 Animal breeders' society
(1) A group of persons may be registered as an animal breeders' society if-
(a) the kind of animal or a specified breed of such kind of animal with which such a group of persons is concerned, has been declared in terms of section 2 to be an animal for the purpose of this Act;
(b) no other such registration has been granted in respect of an animal breeders' society which is concerned with the same breed of such kind of animal;
(c) the constitution of such group of persons specifically provides-
(i) for the promoting, breeding, recording or registration, genetic improvement and use of a kind of animal or an animal of a specified breed of such kind of animal;
(ii) for the determination and the application of breed standards, and for the recommendation, in its sole discretion, to a registering authority of the recording or the registration of an animal or of a specified breed bred or imported into the Republic;
(iii) for the continued commitment to animal improvement;
(iv) for the manner in which the constitution may be amended; and
(d) such group of persons complies with such requirements as may be prescribed.
(2) An animal breeders' society or group of animal breeders' societies may be registered as a registering authority with reference to the kind of animal or kinds of animals of a specified breed or breeds of such kind of animals if-
(a) no other such registration has been granted in respect of a registering authority which is concerned with the same animal or breed of animal: Provided that if another registering authority has been previously registered as such in respect of a specified kind of animal or a specified breed of such kind of animal, the registrar may, with due allowance for the decision of the majority of the breeders registered as such with the relevant animal breeders' society concerned with such a kind of animal or breed of such kind of animal, grant an application referred to in section 8 (3);
(b) the constitution of such registering authority provides that-
(i) before any information with reference to an individual animal is accepted and the animal is registered or recorded, such information shall be subject to verification in respect of the correctness of parentage, the interbirth cycle of the dam, the ownership of the parents at the time of serving and the birth of the animal;
(ii) the manner of verification of all registration particulars, the manner in which records are created and kept, and the contents of the records shall comply with the requirements determined by the registrar, in consultation with all other registering authorities;
(iii) the applicable fees, if any, for the registration of prefixes and suffixes and for participation in the integrated registration and genetic information system, shall be paid to the organisation referred to in section 15 (3) (a);
(iv) a breeder's right to direct participation in the integrated registration and genetic information system is acknowledged in the event of the animal breeders' society's failure to comply with its own constitution in the opinion of the registrar;
(v) the manner in which the constitution may be amended, is described; and
(c) such animal breeders' society or group of animal breeders' societies complies with such requirements as may be prescribed.


15 Restriction on certain actions with reference to stud book animals
(1) No person shall-
(a) represent or claim to represent breeders of stud book animals of a specific breed as an animal breeders' society;
(b) advertise that he or she promotes the breeding, recording or registration, genetic improvement and use of a kind of animal or an animal of a specified breed of such kind of animal; or
(c) determine and apply breed standards or recommend the recording or registration of an animal of a specified breed of animal bred in or imported into the Republic with a registering authority,
unless he or she is registered as an animal breeders' society in terms of section 8.
(2) No person shall in respect of the specified kind of animal or a specified breed of such kind of animal-
(a) issue a certificate of registration of an animal which has been bred in or imported into the Republic;
(b) issue a certificate of recording of an animal which has been bred in or imported into the Republic; or
(c) issue a certificate with reference to the particulars of the pedigree of an animal which has been bred in or imported into the Republic,
unless he or she is registered as a registering authority in terms of section 8.
(3) (a) A certificate referred to in subsection (2) (a) or (b) shall only be issued if the registering authority concerned has registered on behalf of the breeder of the animal concerned a prefix or a suffix to indicate animals bred by him or her, with the organisation which is contracted by the Department to operate the integrated registration and genetic information system.
(b) Such a prefix or suffix shall be registered under conditions and on the payment of the fees determined by the organisation referred to in paragraph (a), and the registration of the prefix or suffix shall be maintained on the periodic payment of the fees and under the conditions which have been determined, and such organisation shall issue a certificate in respect of each such registration.
(c) A prefix or suffix which has been registered in favour of a person shall not be used by another person as a prefix or suffix or in any other manner to indicate an animal that has been bred by such other person.
(4) A power which in terms of subsection (2) only rests with a registering authority, shall not be so construed that it-
(a) prohibits the breeder of an animal which is not registered or recorded by a registering authority to supply particulars of the pedigree of such animal in writing or otherwise; or
(b) prohibits any person to supply particulars of the pedigree of an animal expressed on the certificate of registration or recording thereof in writing or otherwise.

Nothing here precludes anyone from selling a registered thoroughbred as a thoroughbred. You can't hi-jack any of the functions of a breed organisation, but you can do what you like beyond that. As the vintage sale did, and every other private or dispersal sale has done. Selling something, and advertising the sale and the product, is not usurping anything from 15.1 etc. Advertising of something that is in fact already registered with the TBA, doesn't require anything else. So you should read all those points together, till you get to "unless he or she is registered as an animal breeders' society in terms of section 8." anyway.

That were some fascinating comments made on that show for sure...

As they say in the movies..I take the 5th!

Bloodstock SA Wrote:

---

> That were some fascinating comments made on that
> show for sure...
>
> As they say in the movies..I take the 5th!

Tom in your position I don't think you can take the 5th? I'm not trying to be antagonistic but in my opinion too many leaders in racing have been taken the the 5th for too long?

I meant not too lower myself to having to claim we sold horses from sales we didn't run!

I prefer to lead by example and show that honesty and ethics are the way forward for our industry.

Bloodstock SA Wrote:

---

> I meant not too lower myself to having to claim we
> sold horses from sales we didn't run!
>
> I prefer to lead by example and show that honesty
> and ethics are the way forward for our industry.

You raise two questions with your comments.

1. What claim can any sales house have over horses they officiate over? Do you calim they run faster, or sold cheaper? What else would your buyers want to hear?

2. You say honesty and ethics are the way you would prefer to go. Are you implying others are dishonest and unethical? If not, what are you saying, or are you saying nothing at all?