Bleeders the cause and what to do?

The Steroids i was talking about are testan ,protobol and a mixture etc yet they are still used and nothing is done about it these guys put them on a course and build up a horse the horse gains the muscle etc and for arguments sake say it looses 30% of the mass it gained on the steroid it still has gained that is why human athletes are banned for life or two to three years so the effect and gains of the steroid have worn off if horses that recieved steroids could not race for a year lets see how many trainers would use them.

If clowns are using these products designed for humans then they are clueless. Using these products is bound to increase testoserone levels while building muscle mass and that would immediately be detected by race testing.

Well the clowns are about and not getting caught believe me and like i said the vets are the ones pushing using them so it does not say much for them hey, and not just the one vet most i have met have the same ideas all they do is wait for the 40 days and race the horses and as for it not working i could show you a few yards where i would bet the majority of the horses have been or are on a course i think its time people wake up and smell the roses or i just think its been tollerated so long that it is the norm like i say lets do more random testing whilst horses are in training and not just race days and then see what turns up. You seem to know your drugs but ask about and you will see what is used.

Ernst, when I detailed a trainer about nutrition and benefits of nutricuetical products I sometimes got a reply...."dunno boet, I will have to ask my vet" then I know that the vet is involved in providing more than veterian services for the horses and the trainer is not completely aware of what the horses are on.....:S

Interesting article on racingpost.com

www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/usa...races/897433/latest/

Very interesting!..I wonder how this is gonna pan out Mickeyblue?

Then you also get Laff and Goofman on their last show ,bleating how unfair it is for horses not to be allowed lasix here, then quote unfounded bleeding deaths stats and lasix is the ultimate cure. It is a drug, a proven peformance enhancer end of story. Has not cured or will ever cure bleeding, as horses have been found to bleed even on lasix.Pharmacutical moguls have pushed this for USA racing and now have a future of a declining market. It is about time to completely rid racing of substances that have no proven benefits other than give medicated horses an unfair edge.

Well I cant agree with you fully J Pegged..Lasix or furosemide came off patent many years ago and is dirt cheap...as for curing bleeding as you say..that is impossible and nobody has ever said it does..as for performance enhancing I have big doubts about that..show me one published study which says it does..what they worry about is it can mask other performance enhancing drugs in tests but that too is outdated as new testing machinery discounts that (whether SA racing has the new machines I dont know).

I am pro-furosemide if well controlled by authorities for many reasons..thats my viewpoint..many others will dissagree

all i know its crippling the industry and i havent seen any solutions forthcoming

Masking agent is the wrong terminoligy it is a pure diuretic and thus a purging agent
SIDE EFFECTS/TOXICITY
The major side effect of all diuretics is the danger of dehydration and electrolyte imbalance. Of particular importance is potassium, which is lost in increased amounts in the urine. Furosemide may also cause decreased levels of blood calcium. Both of these electrolytes are important in normal functioning of heart and skeletal (body) musculature.

Furosemide should be used with great caution, if at all, in cases where renal (kidney) function may be impaired; with preexisting dehydration and known, or suspected electrolyte imbalance; and, in horses with liver disease or suspected tumors of the pituitary gland. (In the latter. furosemide may cause a worsening of the centrally induced diabetes.)

DRUG INTERACTIONS
The concurrent use of corticosteroids in horses treated with furosemide can result in worsening of potassium and calcium loss.

The concurrent use of furosemide and aminoglycoside (the -mycin group antibiotics may result in increased risk of damage to the kidneys or deafness.

Furosemide may decrease the response to drugs such as epinephrine used to maintain blood pressure during general anesthesia. Furosemide can also decrease sensitivity to commonly used paralyzing agents (e.g., curare! a horse may receive during general anesthesia. Furosemide may increase the sensitivity to other paralyzing agents (e.g., succinylcholine). Therefore, furosemide should not be given for at least one day prior to general anesthesia. THE SURGEON AND ANESTHETIST SHOULD BOTH BE INFORMED IF THE HORSE HAS A HISTORY OF RECEIVING FUROSEMIDE AND REQUIRES EMERGENCY SURGERY.

Concurrent use of furosemide and trimethoprim may result in increased likelihood of the development of low platelet Counts.

BREEDING
Furosemide is not recommended for use in breeding stock.

PREGNANCY
Furosemide may cause fetal malformations and is contraindicated during pregnancy.

NURSING
Furosemide appears in the breast milk of other species. It should be used with caution in nursing mares, particularly when they have very young foals.

DRUG TESTING
ARCI: Furosemide is currently an unlisted drug in the ARCI classification system, but under consideration for classification as a Class 4 drug.

Detection Time Information: In many racing jurisdictions, furosemide is a permitted drug for use in prevention of exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage (bleeding). Its pharmacological effects after an intravenous dose are not thought of as lasting for longer than 5-6 hours, although the effects may last longer after intramuscular administration of the drug. Because furosemide can dilute out certain drugs and drug metabolites in equine urine, the generally recommended dose in the treatment of lung bleeding is 250 mg/horse not less than 4 hours prior to post. Such a dose of furosemide can be detected in urine with relative ease for 36 hours and with some effort, for 72 hours after drug administration, although most chemists will not report the drug at 72 hours post dosing. There is a blood concentration limit in some states of 50 parts/billion (ppb) in blood

Yes let's all use this sh!t, a cetain quick fix for lazy horsemen.

Lazy horsemen? your talking non-sense

J Pegged I been using furosemide for more than 20 years mate..a google on the package insert is meaningless ..if you have been injecting it into people for more than 5 yrs Im prepared to listen to your wisdom on the subject..and you forgot to (or wherever you googled the info from) mention the Sodium levels which run cocurrently with the Potassium levels.