Phumelela CEO reply to gjmurrell

Hi Dave

The reality is that following a review of the betting logs, that we do have an overseas customer who bet R21,370 on horse 5, on Race 4 at Kennilworth on 19 Jan 2010. The same customer bet on all the races on the day and had a net overall gain on his win bets of R 4,108 and a net overall loss on his place bets on the day of R28,276.

Regards

David Attenborough
CEO (South Africa)






Re: Tote betting from someone who KNOWS

Posted by: gjmurrell

Date: January 20, 2010 12:57PM

Hi all,

I don't know how to add graphic files to the forum messages,
so I have attached a PDF file with the printouts for Kenilworth
Race 4 yesterday. The same mystery international punter must
have put R20,000 on No 5 (the winner at 6/1) in the last few
seconds again.

I must stress that these bets are reflected BEFORE the result
of the race,

Attached files fileabc.pdf (186.5 KB)Â

Does Phumelela think it is a good thing to have VICIOUS swings in payouts as they do (for whatever reason)??????

Surely it will do more harm to their business than good??

Ahhhh no I'm being silly. As long as the pools are bigger, they make more money....stuff the punter right???

Because at the end of the day thats all it really comes down to. Make money at ANY cost. If you have stake money invested, PRAY for a cancellation due to rain, becuase you simply ABANDON the racemeeting....More money made, or money to allocate to some other fancy overseas venture!!!

"Mr. Phantom" is doing your business no good. You may gain between R30k and R40k but you stand to loose the local market of lets say R200k per race??? Makes no sense does it?

If the Phantom becomes so large that he(it) starts to 'bet against himself' as the local market has shrunk to nothing then will he still continue.(eg if local bets comprise 10-20% of the pool?

Perhaps Mr A is refering to a "customer" being a specific outlet or website or country not a specfic individual?

Thats a good question Mr H.There is a ticket but how do they know who/what is behind the ticket. They make no effort to have any knowledge of local customers!
That is not a criticism BTW, as there are far too many to keep track of,but why would they know one individual,in another country.
The general consensus is that a cause of the problem is large bets SO LATE,so why are overseas allowed so much larger bets,in 1 ticket,than local punters.
I notice that when we co-mingle into the states we have to abide by their tote rules.....why not the same for us?

PRINT THE LOG...
Display the log online..
we can teach the guys to read it..even if its is a hex dump...

Surely no more hex like in the good old days? Depends on the database and utilities used I suppose

Hi all,

Very decent of Phumelela to reply, and it does go a way to explaining
the abnormal tote patterns we have seen in the last few months. So at
least we now know that there really is an overseas punter who wagers
R20,000 per bet in the last few seconds of a race - and has a phenomenal
strike rate of finding winners.

The question now is WHY? This can hardly be an astute punter as he kills
his own dividend every time. If he is showing a LOSS on his place bets
EVERY TIME, then why does he continue to take them? It just makes no sense.

Now if he put R21370 on No 5 in Race 4 as claimed, and got a return of just
under R50,000, then the profit is surely reportable under FICA regulations
as the win was in excess of R25,000. So Phumelela must know the punters
identity, and surely as a courtesy they should inform him of the carnage
his large bets are causing to punter confidence in the tote. The irony is
that if the bets went on earlier, it would be excellent for the tote, as
punters would jump into the other runners, and his dividend would be much
better.

Hi all,

Just checked all my printouts for Arlington today, and there were NO wild
swings on the tote. I checked as the horses jumped, 20 seconds after that
(when the race was marked CLOSED), and 30 seconds after that when the final
figures came through. Only Race 4 increased by R14,000 right at the jump, but
this was fairly evenly spread, which is what you would expect with a whole
batch of bets on a tote system.

So either the phantom punter does not like PE racing, has lost all his money
or knows that he is being scrutinised.

Nobody taking tote win bets today can have any complaints.

I agree today looks fair

Money is bet into the SA pool. Co-mingling takes place in SA. Large transactions by one individual which appear to have no logic in their size or consequential effect and which cause place bets to return R1 or even less for a R 1 stake.

I wonder if these transactions have been reported to FICA in terms of existing legislation. Remember the bet and the result are taking place in SA and any party to money laundering transactions is equally guilty under the legislation.

Money is bet into the SA pool. Co-mingling takes place in SA. Large transactions by one individual which appear to have no logic in their size or consequential effect and which cause place bets to return R1 or even less for a R 1 stake.

I wonder if these transactions have been reported to FICA in terms of existing legislation. Remember the bet and the result are taking place in SA and any party to money laundering transactions is equally guilty under the legislation.

Corporate governance 101.

Racketeering does not have to comply with corporate governance.
Ask the Gambling board, they turn a blind eye.
We all nailing Phumelela, why are we allowing the Gambling board to let the racketeers continue..??
because it suits us...??
guess then Phumelela can get away too..