KEEPING TRACK

Cuckoo,

When you quote 'fact' make sure it's correct.
Here's the real thing:

Jo'burg:
11/7/00 at Newmarket Maiden Plate 37.5k
13/7/00 at Gosforth Park Maiden Plate 25k
12/7/08 at Turffies Maiden Plate 70k

Natal:
12/7/00 at Scottsville Maiden Plate 34k
11/7/08 at Greyville Maiden Plate 60k

PS.
How come P. has increased so much more than GC (+10 in +35 is 30% more)

As an outsider Greenbook, without knowledge of what happened and when etc.

Can you tell me if said "motivation for merging the turf clubs was to unify the industry so that it could compete against the forthcoming casino industry".
Was why P invested in slots etc. which are very much 'casino-like' in their operation, and if so how much of said slots profits are ploughed back into racing?

Just wondering, as you say nothing happens in a vacum.

Cheers, Jim

Karel, if incorrect, my apologies, those are the figures i had from a 'reliable' source, which i will re-visit.
Your 70k figure, with respect refers to 2008.
And i am in Phumelela territory so cannot comment on Gold Circle.
I am of the opinion that too little credit has been given to racing people who sustained this industry for so many decades and were 'scared off' into placing our assets and giving away our intellectual property to the corporate.
As i have only been in the game for 4 years, and a relative novice, as opposed to yourself, who i regard as a knowledgable and respected man in the industry, i wont argue on your figures, but will remain steadfast in my belief that Phumelela are not the saviour of our game.
I will when time permits, try and research the exact conditions of Phumelela's license, and the current situation the industry finds itself now.

Karel,
Maybe Im reading between the lines too much but I sense a serious motivation from yr side for a fast merger or aquisition between P and GC?

As this hots up, a quick question.

How does the performance of the two (P and GC) compare? Who makes more 'profit'?

I would have thought that GC not having shareholders (ie dividends) and presumably not having to pay the same tax rate, would at least have an edge to compete with the P-machine and it's tremendous turnover, but it appears perhaps it is not so.

I think it is important to see P. against GC.
Corporate against 'private'.
Latter pays no tax, no dividends.
If corporisation isn't the saviour, stakes should reflect this.

Below are stakes for a whole raceday, I think it is important to get the picture beyond just Maiden Plates.
I stuck to your original years, 2000 vs 2007.

11/07/2000 N MJP-F 42,000
11/07/2000 N *WrkR 37,500
11/07/2000 N MJP-C 42,000
11/07/2000 N MJP-C 42,000
11/07/2000 N NP-F 42,000
11/07/2000 N NP-C 42,000
11/07/2000 N BDiv 67,500
11/07/2000 N EDiv 42,000
11/07/2000 N MP-C 37,500
11/07/2000 N MP-F 37,500

11/07/2000 K MJP-F 38,000
11/07/2000 K MJP-C 38,000
11/07/2000 K MP-F 34,000
11/07/2000 K NP 38,000
11/07/2000 K Open 75,000
11/07/2000 K Fill 41,000
11/07/2000 K MP-F 34,000

12/07/2000 S MJP-F 38,000
12/07/2000 S MP-F 34,000
12/07/2000 S MP-F 34,000
12/07/2000 S MP 34,000
12/07/2000 S Feat 90,000
12/07/2000 S DDiv 41,000
12/07/2000 S AllPl 49,000
12/07/2000 S MP-C 34,000

---

14/07/2007 J MJP 65,000
14/07/2007 J MP-F 65,000
14/07/2007 J MP-F 65,000
14/07/2007 J MR84F 80,000
14/07/2007 J AppHp 70,000
14/07/2007 J MR87 80,000
14/07/2007 J MR90 80,000
14/07/2007 J MR71 57,500
14/07/2007 J MR65 45,000

14/07/2007 K MJP-F 55,000
14/07/2007 K MJP 55,000
14/07/2007 K MJP 55,000
14/07/2007 K JP-F 62,000
14/07/2007 K NP-F 57,000
14/07/2007 K MR78 58,000
14/07/2007 K MR100 88,000
14/07/2007 K MR71 57,000
14/07/2007 K MR84F 63,000
14/07/2007 K MP 55,000

15/07/2007 C *WrkR 57,000
15/07/2007 C MJP 57,000
15/07/2007 C MJP-F 57,000
15/07/2007 C JP 60,000
15/07/2007 C JP-F 60,000
15/07/2007 C AllPl 75,000
15/07/2007 C MR96 70,000
15/07/2007 C MR90F 70,000
15/07/2007 C MrcSp 400,000
15/07/2007 C MR73F 57,000

EDIT: relates to Jamster's post above. clearly my two fingers not as quick as Karel's


i am enough of an outsider myself not to know the correct answer to either question. however, over the last 3 years or so the strategic positioning of P with the financial community and on its corporate website has visibly shifted away from exclusively racing and towards that of a gaming operator generally.

there's no doubt that this is driven by new opportunities in the SA gaming market, such as the regulation of LPMs (or FOBTs as you and i would know them), and within 12 months virtual racing, the proverbial dice on legs, will be legal in SA. the expansion into local broadcasting of international racing from france, uk, kenya etc is another form of virtual racing, in that it can be piped to the punters with little or no requirement for capital investment.

also, as P's market value has increased, so has the range of strategic possibilities. so much so that it was recently rumoured to have been considering buying a major casino.

there's an argument that says that all of this growth into new products helps to support racing in a broad sense because it helps to reduce P's reliance on the struggling tote turnovers to maintain its core racing product. equally there's another which says isn't there a risk that at some point P stops being a racing operator and becomes a gaming company that organises some horse races, with a corresponding shift in priorities.

imo, racing should be racing and betting should be betting, and merging the two carries inherent conflicts of interest.

11/07/2000 N MJP-F 42,000
12/07/2000 S MJP-F 38,000
11/07/2000 K MJP-F 38,000

14/07/2007 J MJP 65,000
15/07/2007 C MJP 57,000
14/07/2007 K MJP 55,000

Gau -- increased 55%
Kzn -- increased 50%
WCp -- increased 44%

A bit of amateur investigating has turned up the following

2006
revenue:
P 2.118 billion
G 1.823 billion

stakes
P 122.5 million
G 108.1 million + 6.886 to Breeders

profit before tax
P 86.3 million
G 12.7 million


2007 P do much better, no figs for GC

Of the 1.823 billion, 1.239 struck in Kzn and only 584 in WCape.. 2/3 - 1/3
And of that:
35% played on Phumelela (incl PE)
26% played on KZn
23% played on international
16% played on WCape

that is v interesting and helps to explain the discrepancy in profitability seeing 58% of GC turnover will be subject to commingling fees and so they are much lower margin bets for GC, despite having to support a tote infrastructure roughly as big as P.

Seeing many of you GC folk are so keen on Phumelela, maybe you might care to ask them what safe-guards they propose to give you re the preservation of your race-courses, traditions and assets generally.

Cuckoo im getting a strong feeling the coastal guys are pushing for P to acquire them..it def wont be a merger and then all the duplicated managers can say bye bye to their nice cushy jobs?