Anton Marcus have i missed something?

I have stayed out of this thread as my feelings on how good Anton is are well documented already. Tom is a good jockey but having worked with him in the UK and travelled to the races with him and watched him ride, he is not in Anton's class at this stage. Anthony and Sean in Natal are better, let alone when we start talking about Striker. Tom(nice hard working guy that he is) proves my point that any reasonable jockey on a top horse will win. It is all about the horse in racing. Even the great MDK said on tv the other day that it is easy to train good horses.

Tipster wrote: Anton Marcus gets the best rides here but the best ride ever in the UK went to ... er ... Tom Queally, who is third rate at best. Kirby and Doyle are in the top six in Britain so are "top" in terms of where the best horses are but are they world class riders?

Tipster,that is irrelevant.Queally was Cecil's stable jockey and the owner being one of the most loyal and someone who doesn't interfere with he's trainers decisions,he was always going to ride Frankel and to be honest he didn't do a bad job.
I don't think Kirby is world class,Doyle has time to get a lot better.
Moore,Hughes are world class.
Tipster if your going down the list from top to bottom,In my opinion apart from 2 SA jockeys the rest would be 5th rate compared to the UK third rates.SA hasn't the strength in depth compared to UK

Striker will ride em all 2 sleep..

I am just going to back out of this thread as you guys in Durban obviously live in a glass bowl and cant see out of it.

davetheflower wrote:

Tipster wrote: Anton Marcus gets the best rides here but the best ride ever in the UK went to ... er ... Tom Queally, who is third rate at best. Kirby and Doyle are in the top six in Britain so are "top" in terms of where the best horses are but are they world class riders?

Tipster,that is irrelevant.Queally was Cecil's stable jockey and the owner being one of the most loyal and someone who doesn't interfere with he's trainers decisions,he was always going to ride Frankel and to be honest he didn't do a bad job.
I don't think Kirby is world class,Doyle has time to get a lot better.
Moore,Hughes are world class.
Tipster if your going down the list from top to bottom,In my opinion apart from 2 SA jockeys the rest would be 5th rate compared to the UK third rates.SA hasn't the strength in depth compared to UK

Dave I know that we are a third world country, but in sport we're first world as is proved by being number one in cricket, while in rugby it is now 12 in a row against your boys. The SA Jockey Academy provides intense training for apprentices headed by three riding masters and with the help of a state of the art equisizer in which simulated races can be ridden, plus they have video analysis, biokinetisists, fitness instructors, nutritionists and psychologists at their beck and call. Furthermore, such is the logistics and routines of Summerveld training centre that the apprentices can ride 30 or more horses a day. This is what they get for FIVE YEARS. How can you even begin to compare the training UK jockeys receive - a couple of months at a school and then the guv'nor advises them. Furthermore, your opinions are based on conjecture and no facts to back it up. It is so easy to prove that SA jockeys are probably pound for pound the best in the world - just look at the list of champion jockeys in Hong Kong which has the reputation of being the toughest place in the world to ride. You say no strength in depth - how did our number 59 on the log this year make it to number 7 on the log in Ireland then and how did a rider as average as Kirby make it to number 6 in the British Flat Championships?

Tipster,I admire your pride in your country.cant disagree with the cricket or rugby.
But what has those two sports got to do with jockeys.
I'm not looking at the debate as SA v UK,are we going to argue who has best badminton team?
The opinions are about the top jockeys,regarding Hong Kong,it's tough to ride their due to strictness of rules,but name me 5 top class jockeys riding there.

Regarding Ireland,their best jockeys are riding in England for long parts of the season due to
the fact their racing association is not putting on enough meetings.
I can't remember Latham popping across the Irish Sea to often,and it's not a long journey,reason being he's not better than what's already their.

Getting back to the real topic.
Now if you want facts,go and look at the ammount of OVERSEAS group winners Ryan Moore has had for multiple trainers compared to Anton Marcus and Strydom.
I think Moore has had more than those two combined,what Moore do you need to know.

davetheflower wrote: Tipster,I admire your pride in your country.cant disagree with the cricket or rugby.
But what has those two sports got to do with jockeys.
I'm not looking at the debate as SA v UK,are we going to argue who has best badminton team?
The opinions are about the top jockeys,regarding Hong Kong,it's tough to ride their due to strictness of rules,but name me 5 top class jockeys riding there.

Regarding Ireland,their best jockeys are riding in England for long parts of the season due to
the fact their racing association is not putting on enough meetings.
I can't remember Latham popping across the Irish Sea to often,and it's not a long journey,reason being he's not better than what's already their.

Getting back to the real topic.
Now if you want facts,go and look at the ammount of OVERSEAS group winners Ryan Moore has had for multiple trainers compared to Anton Marcus and Strydom.
I think Moore has had more than those two combined,what Moore do you need to know.

You and C&C keep on referring to Moore, whom I agree is probably the best in the world with Hughes not far behind. I'm talking about your average jockeys in the UK - they are seriously overrated and I think its C&C who is living in a glass bowl.

That was my point, purely subjective thread.
R u guys basing ur points on gr1 wins? Number of wins? % of wins, places?
Imo no way 2 onjectively say who is the best..
Unless, they all ride on commin grounds for atleast a season. Riding ind same big races.

Like christophe soumillon is world class and many ppl love him, but he gives me a heart attack every time he rides, always finds trouble imo

tipster that jockey academy has seen better days..the best sa jockeys are 40years and older which means they left the academy over 20 years ago..bar fourie khumalo gav lerena faydeherbe who are also close to 30 years old they don't produce quality jocks in quantity anymore...with my untrained eye I have seen the standard of rider drop alarmingly...

Pirates, I agree but they would probably on average be better than the equivalent in the UK.

Leseding wrote:

Tipster wrote: Pirates, I agree but they would probably on average be better than the equivalent in the UK.

Tipster,

So you agree that the Standard of Training and the standard of apprenticed Riders at the Summerveld Jockey Academy has dropped alarmingly !

Well I should have clarified that I don't think the standard of training has dropped (they have a lot better facilities now and a lot less excuses for not succeeding) and I also don't think he standard of riding has dropped "alarmingly". However, just as cricket has dropped out of favour in the West Indies due to the good futures other sports offer, so is racing not nearly as public a sport as it was in its heyday over here and jockeys are no longer celebrities as they once were. Therefore joining the academy is not as attractive a proposition to a youngster as it once was. Therefore there has obviously been a drop in the number of real stars that it is producing. However it must be remembered what a hard act the stars of yesteryear are to follow. The most "alarming" drop is the one of attitude, but this appears to be the case in just about all walks of life these days.