6% DEDUCTION ON TOTE PAYOUTS BY BOOKIES; LEGIT?

* Oops! Sorry, draft.... pending input from forumites/clarification!!!

The Chairman/CEO
National Gambling Board

Dear Sir/Madam,

RE : ADDITIONAL 6% TAX ON TOTE BETS BY BOOKMAKERS; ILLEGAL?

There are two avenues for taking bets by punters/gamblers in South Africa;

1.
The first is with what is referred to as the ‘totalisator’ (tote).

This is run by an operator (being Phumelela and Gold Circle Racing via their tote arm) for the horseracing industry. The payouts are based on the number of winning tickets divided pro rata into the total pool for the event, type of bet AFTER ‘take-out’ deductions (VAT, operating costs, etc).

2.
The second is taking ante-post bets with bookmakers where the odds of winning are calculated as potential risk, taking into consideration form of the horses, etc. Herein, bookmakers are legally obliged to deduct 6% from winnings and hand over all or part of it to the operator and/or the relevant Province.


The problem is that most bookmakers also lay ‘tote’ odds, where the payout is not pre-determined. In doing so, they are also deducting 6% from winnings of punters.

This we deem as double taxation and illegal.

What is a concern is that these bookmakers are also ‘tote’ agents with the operator. Herein, they collect a percentage of the turnover as commission (circa 3,5%). Is this not fraudulent?

We call upon you to not only investigate, but also request the various Provincial Boards and the operator, not to appoint bookmakers as ‘tote’ agents as there is a serious conflict of interests; bookmakers must only lay bets in terms of their function; pre-determined odds. Also, that they refund all deductions made on ‘tote’ payouts forthwith or face suspension/cancellation of their licence.

Trusting that due consideration will be given to this request.

With regards

Hanif Manjoo
Bopa-Net

And
C Simoto-Chairman
SA Grooms Association

This letter appears extremely naive.

@justanotherpunter:

'This letter appears extremely naive.'


Why?

will appreciate input / clarification.

I personally maintain that our gambling laws are pretty mundane and ineffectual, favouring one party only; rather, the various Gambling Boards have people who are naive. As a consequence, we punters do not think for ourselves except conditioned as part of the exploitative / loaded operative nexus!

I will get official reply but as far as I am aware Hollywood for example do not charge the punters 6% when taking an open bet?

It could be that they do not charge but still pay it over themselves!

Solotrama you are correct. Hollywood do not charge the tax but still pay it over the relevant Gambling Boards. Some bookmakers do charge the tax and also pay it over to the relevant Gambling Boards. Both are perfectly legal.

I would have sent the above letter to Julius Malema and Jacob Zuma. You would have had more chance of receiving a reply from them.

@Harris:

'Solotrama you are correct. Hollywood do not charge the tax but still pay it over the relevant Gambling Boards. Some bookmakers do charge the tax and also pay it over to the relevant Gambling Boards. Both are perfectly legal.'

The 6% tax is on ante-post betting; not on tote payouts where tax has already been included in the 'take-out'. We are referring to double taxation if that is happening; even if the deduction is passed on to the Gambling Boards/Province.

I might not have contextualised the scenario aptly, but the gist is there.

if a bookie lays you the open bet , you are not betting into the taxed tote pool therefore the 6% which the bookie deducts !

What double taxation?

First of all,the bookmakers like Hollywood and Betxchange that offer the highest limits on 'open bets' do not charge the punter 6%.They inflate your winnings by the 6%(Hollywood actually add a little more on so the punter actually scores) before taking the tax off.

So lets say you put R100 on a horse that pays R2 a place.Hollywood turns this 'open bet' into a fixed bet making your bet 107/100 and then charges you the 6% so in effect you get back 107*94%=R100.58+R100(stake)=R200.58

This is just an example,I'm not exactly sure how they do it but it is something along those lines.

Why should bookmakers not be tote agents?This point I don't get at all.

The open bet case has been fought and lost in a court of law by Phumelela.

The above letter has too many inaccuracies to actually bother going through all of them.It is clearly written by people who have little understanding of the ins and outs of betting.

"The 6% tax is on ante-post betting"

The 6% is on fixed odds betting.Your terminology is incorrect.

@justanotherpunter:

'The above letter has too many inaccuracies to actually bother going through all of them.It is clearly written by people who have little understanding of the ins and outs of betting.'

Isn't that a problem? Why haven't idiotic punters like me been educated?

This lack of respect and a dogmatic, condescending attitude is not called for; I have not been uncouth in response! What has Malema got to do with the subject?

Then, we are said to be wanting to bring politics into everything!

Bring politics into everything?

Umlilo you are my friend and i love you,but a dinae ken why you bother with all this pish?