cape racing crooked
- Bushy
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
Royal IQ Wrote:
> @ Oscar,
>
> Maybe I should clarify ,and others more
> knowledgable than me, could explain the term "pull
> up a horse". I have been in discussions where
> instructions were given for a horse to be given an
> easy ride for various reasons. One main thing is
> to bring a horse's merit rating down for that
> specific horse to become competitive from a lower
> merit rating. Is that "pulling" a horse? The other
> one is to give a horse an easy ride after a rest
> as not all trainers give a grass gallop after a
> rest to test the level of fitness.
if this is the case, then why is there no transparency to the racing public? we all can look at the card and maybe come up with a "value" or "ew" bet based on a horses prior ability before the rest...but if that horse is going to be given no chance of winning because they want the MR down, or just want to give it an easy ride, then why cant we as the punters be notified of this? to all those that rage about those "in the know", i can fully see where they are coming from. many a time ive had this information at my disposal and i take advantage of it and structure my bets accordingly, but if i didnt have it all i'd be doing is wasting money having a "value" nibble or adding an extra horse in the exotics.
i may not be a trainer or jock, but i could see exactly why one would want to give a horse an easy ride, as an owner i'd automatically expect my trainer to do everything in his power to make the most stakes for his owners. if it means playing around for a couple races to drop a couple points in the MR in order to make an extra 40k or so in stakes, ...your horse earns its rating and wins a few races up until it reaches lets say a rating of 90, but you clearly dont think the horse has much more to be competitive any higher, so you play around to drop the rating back to 80, then you come out and win another 2 races instead of staying a high rating and maybe having a couple places.
maybe im way off track, but for me i would only be in support of something like this if i had a mature horse who i and the trainer didnt think could get much better and its better days were behind it, so then you do what you can to make the most out of the game. but then i go back to the punter, why should the owner only benefit from knowing when the horse is going for the win? why only save him money whilst the rest of the punters think it may have a chance as they dont know about the tactics and riding instructions? the only thing the punter has is the form book and the look of the horse, horses are not machines and one cannot judge a book by its cover, so where does this leave us? process of elimination based on paper, and then using betting moves as a guide to play a guessing game?
im not speaking out of my pocket as i do usually show a healthy profit each month, especially in cape racing...i just feel for all those sitting in the tote day in and day out, who just read their sporting post and free tab sheets and think they have a winner on their hands, meanwhile the connections actually dont want it to even be in the placings in order to get its MR down, which is fully understandable, i just feel in order to get increased turnover in racing locally, the first thing that needs to happen is increased transparency. and this could even come with first timers, where they should be forced to perform time trials as from what ive heard happens in MRU, because it is clear that one cannot trust a trainers comments as they all just say "will need the run" but they cruise home being claimed 5 times, beating an odds on fav? it is because of this that punters are less and less each year, why stakes are not increasing as much as training costs, which is why owners resort to punting to cover themselves as (baring the top couple owners) most dont break even on stake money alone...forget regulation, it is increased transparency to the punter that is the key for this game to survive
> @ Oscar,
>
> Maybe I should clarify ,and others more
> knowledgable than me, could explain the term "pull
> up a horse". I have been in discussions where
> instructions were given for a horse to be given an
> easy ride for various reasons. One main thing is
> to bring a horse's merit rating down for that
> specific horse to become competitive from a lower
> merit rating. Is that "pulling" a horse? The other
> one is to give a horse an easy ride after a rest
> as not all trainers give a grass gallop after a
> rest to test the level of fitness.
if this is the case, then why is there no transparency to the racing public? we all can look at the card and maybe come up with a "value" or "ew" bet based on a horses prior ability before the rest...but if that horse is going to be given no chance of winning because they want the MR down, or just want to give it an easy ride, then why cant we as the punters be notified of this? to all those that rage about those "in the know", i can fully see where they are coming from. many a time ive had this information at my disposal and i take advantage of it and structure my bets accordingly, but if i didnt have it all i'd be doing is wasting money having a "value" nibble or adding an extra horse in the exotics.
i may not be a trainer or jock, but i could see exactly why one would want to give a horse an easy ride, as an owner i'd automatically expect my trainer to do everything in his power to make the most stakes for his owners. if it means playing around for a couple races to drop a couple points in the MR in order to make an extra 40k or so in stakes, ...your horse earns its rating and wins a few races up until it reaches lets say a rating of 90, but you clearly dont think the horse has much more to be competitive any higher, so you play around to drop the rating back to 80, then you come out and win another 2 races instead of staying a high rating and maybe having a couple places.
maybe im way off track, but for me i would only be in support of something like this if i had a mature horse who i and the trainer didnt think could get much better and its better days were behind it, so then you do what you can to make the most out of the game. but then i go back to the punter, why should the owner only benefit from knowing when the horse is going for the win? why only save him money whilst the rest of the punters think it may have a chance as they dont know about the tactics and riding instructions? the only thing the punter has is the form book and the look of the horse, horses are not machines and one cannot judge a book by its cover, so where does this leave us? process of elimination based on paper, and then using betting moves as a guide to play a guessing game?
im not speaking out of my pocket as i do usually show a healthy profit each month, especially in cape racing...i just feel for all those sitting in the tote day in and day out, who just read their sporting post and free tab sheets and think they have a winner on their hands, meanwhile the connections actually dont want it to even be in the placings in order to get its MR down, which is fully understandable, i just feel in order to get increased turnover in racing locally, the first thing that needs to happen is increased transparency. and this could even come with first timers, where they should be forced to perform time trials as from what ive heard happens in MRU, because it is clear that one cannot trust a trainers comments as they all just say "will need the run" but they cruise home being claimed 5 times, beating an odds on fav? it is because of this that punters are less and less each year, why stakes are not increasing as much as training costs, which is why owners resort to punting to cover themselves as (baring the top couple owners) most dont break even on stake money alone...forget regulation, it is increased transparency to the punter that is the key for this game to survive
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- mikesack
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- Royal IQ
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- Titch
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
The industry has come a long way in the transparency stakes over the last decade with teletrack and pre race interviews giving the public what was once considered highly privileged information and I am sure that it is a work in progress that will continue to get better...I agree 100% with Bushy that transparency is an absolute must however when a horse runs a dismal race when the connections thought it would win and passed this info on or vice versa they get shot down in flames albeit by the minority but they will no doubt think twice before offering their opinion when next asked ...
Give everything but up!
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- Titch
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
mikesack Wrote:
> Have u heard of self-explanotary?
Mike how long have you been in the horse racing industry punting or otherwise??
> Have u heard of self-explanotary?
Mike how long have you been in the horse racing industry punting or otherwise??
Give everything but up!
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- gregbucks
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
How do the Shams get it 90% of the time right with regards there runners but others fail dismally in this department?
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- easy
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
gregbucks Wrote:
> How do the Shams get it 90% of the time right with
> regards there runners but others fail dismally in
> this department?
Maybe they dont punt? Maybe they realised that even by telling people the truth the odds dont really change?
> How do the Shams get it 90% of the time right with
> regards there runners but others fail dismally in
> this department?
Maybe they dont punt? Maybe they realised that even by telling people the truth the odds dont really change?
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- Titch
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
do you want me to pull out some threads that claim that "we was Shamed"??? even Dorrie who is 10000000000000% transparent and a great asset not only to this site but to the industry as a whole is not immune to the abuse from the prophets of doom...or should that read non profits of doom??
Give everything but up!
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- gregbucks
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
Titch, go have a long stiff drink, its been a long day....(tu)
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- Royal IQ
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
Known Dorrie and Mark for years. They are good horse people and I know they know what is going on in their stable. Same can be said of Oom Barry but I am sure that even they sometimes can't explain runs or rides on certain horses?
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- gregbucks
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
In EVERY sport there is a bad egg or 2, and it ALWAYS involves money...betting scandals in football, match fixing in cricket etc etc... I don't believe horseracing is immune to this.
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- Titch
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Re: Re: cape racing crooked
13 years 2 weeks ago
Titch Wrote:
> mikesack Wrote:
>
>
> > Have u heard of self-explanotary?
>
>
> Mike how long have you been in the horse racing
> industry punting or otherwise??
> mikesack Wrote:
>
>
> > Have u heard of self-explanotary?
>
>
> Mike how long have you been in the horse racing
> industry punting or otherwise??
Give everything but up!
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