Paying Horse racing Tipsters

Ok - so because studying form takes a lot of time - and it yields diddly a lot of the time - one makes a decision to rather pay an expert to retrieve your lost hours.
You assume there will be no sudden profit taking... but expect some positive result...

I have kept records of a certain tipster that I am paying a fee.. and ummmm.. not looking good
So one has to ask the question. Is paying a tipster a contradiction. If he REALLY had the secret to success would he really want to sell his precious knowledge. Does he not predate on the wishful thinking of people. And allow permutations of his suggested bets to cover any shortfalls in the actual practical accuracy of the tips.

Whats your experience?? I hope I dont sound too negative cause we got some tipsters on the forum. And I would not like their job - putting your name out there and predicting results...

Don't pay for tips IMVHO

Ps I had the first tipping service in SA was called "First Past The Post" and it was put together before we had percentage betting and I put it together so we could have big perms between members.

to be honest my feel is that if a tipster actually cleared a profit each month, he wouldnt have to rely on getting clients to subscribe...and from a couple tipsters i have subscribed to, each time they have a "certainty" and it loses, thats when they send all the emails out with specials they have to get clients on board, in other words to recoup their losses on the horse they backed the day before...i followed a certain tipster who is held in high regard in the country for 4 months, i backed each 'good thing', value bet, and took the P6's when they were confident on the card, and showed a VERY big loss...so i just play when i get the graft, shows a much healthier profit than paying a tipster, atleast imo....

So then one has to honestly frankly ask oneself...
If you not in on the graft (assuming the graft does yield an advantage), and the tipster is playing a game of pot luck like the next fella, then what the hell are we doing punting and throwing our cash to the bookies and totes.
I would prefer to make a profit as oppossed to make a loss - simply because it had a certain positive stink to it.

I often look at first timers romping in, or donkeys kicking dust in form horses throats, and think - am I a d**s to not know that some trainer and jockey knew about that. And I am the d**s funding his windfall...

How do you guys view this..

Information is key, a tipster can read a form book better than others, however without the graft they base all their tips on what the form suggests how the race should play out. What the book does not say is how well the horse is working, what is the stable going to do in the next race? Usually goes to front and fades, but now they going for cover and let it run on, if the horse has been working well with blinkers at home? What stable mates has it been working with, and how much has it improved at home since last run, are they taking the race easy just to give it a prep run for a bigger race, which horse is the stable money on...all things like these can make a form book look like a roulette table. I'm not saying that people don't make money reading form, we all do find winners doing so, but on average unless you are one of maybe 10 in the country, basising all bets based on form can be very dangerous...just look at the guys who openly share their graft, sean miller, posts his fancies for the day, and out pops 20/1 shots that he mentioned, look at gavin van zyl, last week he said his horse at scottsville running its 3rd race was working very well at home and has come on very well and they expecting a top run from the horse, it ended up losing a short head second at 25/1...

the best thing about punting for yourself is you have only one to thanks or blame (tu) what these tipsters now more than you can see in the computerform? if you dont have the time to study dont take the punt

avanza Wrote:

---

> So then one has to honestly frankly ask
> oneself...
> If you not in on the graft (assuming the graft
> does yield an advantage), and the tipster is
> playing a game of pot luck like the next fella,
> then what the hell are we doing punting and
> throwing our cash to the bookies and totes.
> I would prefer to make a profit as oppossed to
> make a loss - simply because it had a certain
> positive stink to it.
>
> I often look at first timers romping in, or
> donkeys kicking dust in form horses throats, and
> think - am I a d**s to not know that some trainer
> and jockey knew about that. And I am the d**s
> funding his windfall...
>
> How do you guys view this..

If everyone knew who was going to win the race there would be only one horse entered.

Many, many connections do not know that their donkey is going to win. Some may be silently confident but that's all.

I would rather trust my ability to study form/the card and even ''gut feel'' than base any bets on graft... just my opinion.

BUT paying for tips, no chance!!!

avanza Wrote:

---

> Ok - so because studying form takes a lot of time
> - and it yields diddly a lot of the time - one
> makes a decision to rather pay an expert to
> retrieve your lost hours.
> You assume there will be no sudden profit
> taking... but expect some positive result...
>
> I have kept records of a certain tipster that I am
> paying a fee.. and ummmm.. not looking good
> So one has to ask the question. Is paying a
> tipster a contradiction. If he REALLY had the
> secret to success would he really want to sell
> his precious knowledge. Does he not predate on the
> wishful thinking of people. And allow permutations
> of his suggested bets to cover any shortfalls in
> the actual practical accuracy of the tips.
>
> Whats your experience?? I hope I dont sound too
> negative cause we got some tipsters on the forum.
> And I would not like their job - putting your name
> out there and predicting results...

Avanza,
it is difficult for a person to tip winners, I have not found anybody that can tip each winner on a card. To me a tipster is their to give you guidance in taking your bets. But their are some tipsters who only tip fav. or 2nd fav their is no skill involved in that surely you can see that for yourself that the horse has a chance..

A few years back I started a tipping service called Outsider Genie where I tipped my member's outsiders. my motto was "anybody could tip a winner but it takes a genie to find an outsider" the idea was that I gave them 1 or 2 selection per race who I thought was the best outsiders and they could then put them in their bets as they choose. if i was a few minutes late they would contact me for their tips because i gave them some good selections, not that the selections always won but they were in the placings and paying well.

I am in the position that I can find outsiders, and don't phone any trainers, jockeys or owners for their tips. I think it takes skill and knowledge to find and outsider example on Monday Cliffie Miller had a 60/1 winner I had money on the horse I didnt found it by picking a number, I have seen over the years that Mr. Miller had a great record with first timers from othet centers and I do make a point to watch out for these type of runners, if you don't have that knowledge you won't find that winner.

So am I allowed to sell my knowledge? I do think so as doctors, lawyers plumbers etc all sell their knowledge why not me?

I tried a few weeks ago to give my knowledge away for free on this forum but it seems to me that their wasn't really interest so I stopped doing it.

My advise to you is study your card, use Computaform and trust your gut feel.

Free advise, one of the things that I do use often in making my selections is when looking at the horses last few runs I look AT LAST 400 TO FINISH the faster the time it show that the horse is reaching a good fitness level, I have found a lot of winners who had fastest last 400 to finish especially if it is under 22 sec but anything between 22-23 is also good. I found a horse in PE, can not remember it name but he had a 22.7 in its last races and he was 6/1 helped myself to 12000/2000 by using my knowledge.

Another tip ALWAYS FOLLOW trainees that is in form don't look at he price off the horse, it is one of the thing that amaze me when a stable hit form even the "donkeys" in the stable runs well.Look for trainers who hadn't had a good spell but then suddenly their horses star running places and then they start winning.

A good example is Mr.O Ferraris was going through a bad spell but now his horses are running well and you can follow him.

Good luck with your choices.

MAN I LOVE THIS GAME .X(

dont pay for tips....u are wasting your money,....but if u are serious...keep your ears opened

for instance....joey's ramdens horse(the trippi ) that ran second to waterfall on saturday....is a top horse..and the word was that if the favourite put 1 hoof wrong in the race...this will win it...and from history..we know that that ramsdens horses always improve on their maiden runs...so u take a notebook and pencil this horse in ...this should win next time out...no tip needed....watch races....like the tarry horse that got beat in a 1600m maiden last night....thats your next winner,....the stable thinks its a good horse ...why should we not back it next time out...ok both these horses would be short in the betting...but i would rather make a profit rather than speculate with trying to beat these 2 horses next time out..the computaform is the only thing u should be paying for to get the winners(sorry mathew)...but just used to the format of computaform..and know where to look for what

Morning guys,
One tipster based in Uk stated that he had inside information about a horse and that he was watching it burning up the gallops every morning and
would win.The said horse i had an interest in and the gallops were private property open only to owners and staff.
The horse was coming back from a lay off and was punted from 12s into 8s probably to do with this idiot tipster.
No one at the yard backed it and it finished 7th or 8th out of 9 runners.
Next tip he put up he stated the previous horse had lost a shoe at the start.
Pure bollocks..

Bushy Wrote:

---

> Information is key, a tipster can read a form book
> better than others, however without the graft they
> base all their tips on what the form suggests how
> the race should play out. What the book does not
> say is how well the horse is working, what is the
> stable going to do in the next race? Usually goes
> to front and fades, but now they going for cover
> and let it run on, if the horse has been working
> well with blinkers at home? What stable mates has
> it been working with, and how much has it improved
> at home since last run, are they taking the race
> easy just to give it a prep run for a bigger race,
> which horse is the stable money on...all things
> like these can make a form book look like a
> roulette table. I'm not saying that people don't
> make money reading form, we all do find winners
> doing so, but on average unless you are one of
> maybe 10 in the country, basising all bets based
> on form can be very dangerous...just look at the
> guys who openly share their graft, sean miller,
> posts his fancies for the day, and out pops 20/1
> shots that he mentioned, look at gavin van zyl,
> last week he said his horse at scottsville running
> its 3rd race was working very well at home and has
> come on very well and they expecting a top run
> from the horse, it ended up losing a short head
> second at 25/1...


bushy..you are misinformed..if u play graft u will go out quicker than if you pay a tipster! in any race 10 trainers will tell you there horses are working well and should go close..!! you mention the sean miller fact but not two weeks ago the guys were having a go at him coz he mentioned a few good things and won those races with complete outsiders and got cremated on here!! graft is rubbish..