ABSURD

Guys but to be fair - a MR 68 is no big deal! Number of wins mean nothing in handicaps - which is a joke anyway! WOTY is no star - if there was something half decent in that field it would have won easily. I would not run to take any of those mares and fillies to stud. Most of the runners are on their way down - but my issue is that the MR system at times deny a young and upcoming horse against a 4/5 time winner. If a upcoming 3yo wins against a 4/5 time winner it is guaranteed a hefty penalty.

so you prove my point homer, woty is no star but she win 12 races.

Well it seems our current system caters for the low to average end of horses and if one can, use it to your advantage. I still do not support it - that is why we have PE and Kimberley. Go race a 10 time winner with a MR 68 or lower there.

why race a 10 time winner in pe when you can win in joburg

Well given the current situation, I will also race my horse in JHB. Good or bad - does not matter.

very entertaining thread guys keep it going

flash harry you must be on drugs......are you telling me that a 11 time winner like "woman" should be running COMPETATIVELY against


igugu?

I agree with Craig Eudey, here are some examples.
My 7 yo gelding, Renegade, runs 2nd in the Hampton Handicap on Emerald Day. He is not "out" at the weights. The winner wins easing up. Renegade is given a 2 pound penalty. Why ? Then Boss Cat runs 2nd. He is consistently placed, but not setting the World alight. He is , also, "in" at the weights, not under sufferance. He is handed a 2 pound penalty. Why ? THE LINE HORSE ! That's why. (the handicapper chooses this line horse) When Waywest Goddess won the Gardenia, she was given a 6 point penalty. I appealed, paid my R2725 fee and she was reduced to a 5 point penalty and my R2725 refunded. ( I should leave the R2725 there for the future...) They used Kalaam as the line horse in WW Godess's race. Where did Kalaam run next time out ?

The point, though, is that all is good , when you bring the winner or others back to the line horse in terms of added weight. However, what about those who run BEHIND the line horse ? When do you bring them FORWARD, to the line horse, by taking OFF some weight/pounds/points ? The other point also, is that when you run in "poor" fields, you seem to stay there forever.

And until the handicapper forgets about how much "stakes" a horse has won and forgets about the potential to "pull" a horse or if a horse was, maybe, at "its best" and handicaps from both "sides" of the line horse, towards the line horse, we will always have the Polo's and the Woman of the Year's of Racing.

The parameters for Merit Rating are there, for all to study, on the NHRA website. Admiral Rous's scale is there. The problem is that the handicapper is pulling the achievers back to the line horse, but he is NOT moving the underachievers FORWARD to the line horse. This is because he is "scared" of the "pull up" merchants. This is creating the "gap" in our Racing. And he is so wrong ! Because :-
1)Honest Owners and Trainers are suffering
2)Good horses are earning less than poor or average horses
3)The door is now WIDE OPEN for the real "pull up" merchants, who will simply bide their time....
4)The qualification for a "good horse", nowadays, is less wins, less stakes and higher MR. Is this Nice ?
5)And Punters find it hard. Any real Punter is very aware of when real money comes for a horse. He will include or jump onto a horse which attracts good support. The problem , nowadays, is that because of the application of the MR system, it is very difficult to "lable" a horse. Nowadays, we see silly little claims of R2k and R3k on horses. What would be the inflatory value, today, of my "uncle Rhoan's claim of R50k, made in 1976 ? (R1M ?)

MR is great, but the application by the handicapper isnt ! (go and look at Hong Kong. See how quickly they drop horses.)

We need a BALANCE - bring BACK to the line horse ONLY if we also BRING FORWARD to the line horse. That's how the system is designed to work ! The handicapper is supposed to endeavour to create a dead heat in every race. That's the very crux of Merit Rating! And then it will work, for all.

interesting thread btw the best rated horse in the world is only a 9time winner, (so was the mighty Sea the Stars) and the 2nd best is 16timer.

but yes its true over-rated horses can take a very long time to come down in ratings.....

We need to be more honest about what a "merit Rating" is,if it is going to be altered as much as weekly......it is then a "form rating" .
We need to be clear on what is the criteria.
I was at a function with a "top 5" trainer,within a few weeks of the conversion from race figure to merit ratings and his exact words were"if they are going to give me the ability to handicap my own horses,I will take it"
That tells you that stringent regulation and tracking of run ratings is required if ratings are adjusted often and a restating of the "inconsistent rule" which has yet to ever be applied!!!!......that suggests we don't have any inconsistent running.......yeah right.
The other issue is,if all horses in training are kept competitive none will retire,but every year a new bunch enter the arena....and we already have too few races for too many horses (the threads are full of that complaint) so that is certainly not a solution.

It would seem to me ,that if you want to keep older horses in training then you need a "seniors" section as they do in golf and let them compete in their own category......but who will supply the stakes?


The entire racing model needs a zero based makeover as there are far too many contradictory aspects at present!

I agree with Craig.

I go further and reckon we should have classes, or bands, of MR brackets which once you have gone up through..that you cannot drop back down through without a fixed penalty.

The idea I am selling is that Maiden class racing should be at the bottom of our racing ladder and upward from there. Once you have captured the prize money as you proceed up the ladder, there should be fixed penalties as you come down. We should not frame weights for races where it's easier to earn than in a maiden race.

Every sport has its kindergarten, and there is no coming back. We have plenty races won by multiple winning horses who wouldn't have won the maiden carrying 58kg run 35 min earlier.

In my opinion, at least the previous system had the integrity that each race you won was a little more difficult than your previous one. We all knew a horse having his 5th win was better than his 1st or 2nd wins. How did we lose such a basic thing?

Now we all know that a 5 time winner may not be what it was...good luck reading the next sales catalogue when they leave out (MR 71) next to 5 wins.

@ Jack

You make complete sense ! Love it !

What I was trying to point out, was the apparent gap that has appeared, in that one group of horses, especially consistent horses, are heavily penalised and the other group of horses are minimally penalised.

Your solution is the best overall and must surely work, especially given the problems facing the Industry at present, eg overpopulation, programming etc.