Horses running "wide"

I have a question. I have been involved and watching races for more years than I care to remember. I was always used to (and still am), the fact that if a horse travels WIDE around any turn in SA it just about cannot win. I understand that the horse is traveling a greater distance than the others but here is my question and ultimately concern.........

In England and the USA horses travel wide in almost every single race. There are NO straight courses in the US, they always run around turns. The horses almost inevitably have to run wide and the jocks don't mind at all. They sit there chilly 5 wide until they want to make their move. they then come into the straight 10 wide and win as they like. In England horses frequently travel wide and still win. Is this because our jocks aren't used to sitting wide and getting bustled around the turn or is it because when they get trapped wide they want to make use of their mounts to get a better position as not to be trapped wide, as apparently that is as good as a death sentence for a horse in SA????

I would love for someone who is more learned than me in the field to explain this to me. I'm sure there are hundreds of mitigating circumstances in a race that could cause a horse not to run up to expectations but it seems like "running wide" or "being trapped on the outside" is not always that bad, it just depends on what you do with the horse when that far out?

Any opinions would be appreciated!

Tommy Field sizes in the states are tiny compared with SA,maybe too much priority is given to obtain an early position?

Hibs, some fields are smaller but there are also 10 to 14 horse fields. No matter how big the field, the way it gets run (due to the tight tracks) is always the same. sit wherever you want and run wide, run on and win......all I'm trying to say is the fact that one horse runs 50 yards further than another one is no reason for it to run down the shit tubes.......

I find that whenever a horse runs wide in SA, its dead.....best horse, worst horse, it makes no difference.

I don't understand

Are most tracks in the US not cambered which would negate racing wide without cover.

I have tried to find out Nagboy but to no avail. If they are cambered then that info is not available to me.

not sure that every race track across the US can be the same (cambered or not) the only thing they have in common is that they are all tight right handed tracks......

So the US might be a bone of contention, but what about England? how many times have you seen horses on the turf as well as the poly come home from being wide all along. I agree it isn't easy to do that but not as HOPELESS as in SA?

Good post Tommy and interesting

First thing that came to mind was Dynasty and Zenyatta

Our logic tells us the the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, so even going round a bend on the inside would be shorter than running wide

In dog racing we have wide runners and railers

In athletics we have staggered starts to make the distance the same for each runner

So I would guess if a horse runs wide and wins its a better horse than most and one to watch

I reckon it may have something to do with the fact that we have false rails in SA, and the same is not true elsewhere (definitely stand to be corrected)... That does not explain why they can win from wide, but certainly explains why they are happy to race wide... to guarantee themselves a clear run. In SA they duck into the rail once the false rail gives way, creating gaps for those who have tucked in behind.

ismikle Wrote:

---

> I reckon it may have something to do with the fact
> that we have false rails in SA, and the same is
> not true elsewhere (definitely stand to be
> corrected)... That does not explain why they can
> win from wide, but certainly explains why they are
> happy to race wide... to guarantee themselves a
> clear run. In SA they duck into the rail once the
> false rail gives way, creating gaps for those who
> have tucked in behind.


That certainly is a good explanation and one I gladly accept. The only thing is that it still does not explain the "running distance". Relative to the distance of the race, the Americans run quite a bit farther when wide than most because they run SOOO wide, but still come home to win. In fact here it is an advantage to be drawn wide for I guess exactly the reason you gave.

An example today at durbanville (and this was not the reason for my posting, just noticed it) the horse Baberton Daisy was well fancied by the trainer and got trapped 3 wide. I think she also ran a bit handier than normal as the jock obviously felt he needed to position her better?
Consequently the horse ran down field.
I seem to remember that Bernard Fayedherbe would quite often race wide at Durbanville, leave the horse alone on the outside and come wide into the straight to win......

Seems like running wide is not always as damning.........only if people want it to be?????

Horses drop the bit when they go into the turn in RSA.
Horses take the bit once they come out of the turn in RSA.
Sticking to the rail, shortest distance, the horse on the rail takes the bit a number of strides before the horses that come wide, hence they kick on and get away from the wide horses.
Horses draw wide with turn of foot run on from behind, once they have taken the bit (normally a few seconds later than the horses drawn on the rail).
Turfontein standside and Vaal allows these wide runners to come from behind and win, as both tracks have long run in.
But you need Fortune or Strydom on these runners as we requirre perfect balance, complete harmony between horse and rider.
The other guys don't have the perfect natural talent.

I disagree with the statement that long straights assist horses coming wide - I think it is the other way around - short straights (usually) do not give the runners on the rail towards the back of the field enough time to reel in the front runners if coming from too far back; so I have seen many races (also a couple of July's) won by horses circling the field on the last turn to come wide into the straight and win - running wide all the way around two or three turns is a different story.

didnt gold onyx win on july day racing wide throughout????

look at mauritius... some win placed upfront. some win from handy positions. some win running wide and then some win coming from off the pace.

in SA if your money is on a horse that is caught wide you can 99% of the time kiss your money goodbye...strange!!!!

Some Jockeys need to ride Helter Skelter