Reserve Prices at CTS

The reason starting low ,is not the auctioneers fault ( he can only take a legal bid )

but the buyer's holding back not wanting to show their hand . game of POKER , start slow ,end strong !!

Craig Eudey Wrote:

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> Mr H, I love the idea of the starting bid being
> not more than 20% lower than the reserve. Hate the
> time wasting when the Auctioneer starts at R300000
> say and then drops to R20000/R50000 and then goes
> all the way back to R300000+.:S


I have been selling on a local auction site and Ebay for almost 10 years. I always start an Auction at the price I want for the item locally (a price that would give me a profit that I'm content with0 more often than not my items have multiple bids and I get between 10-300% more than I wanted.
Unfortunately Ebay encourages you to start an item at 99 cents Usa which then results in a biding frenzy(you can have an item worth 1000 Dollars that starts at $1 and ends on $1200) - Those Auctions are very different to horses as you list them for between a week and two weeks so plenty of time for buyers to view and most of the serious bids only happen in the last hour of the auction). I think horses are more difficult to assess but as a breeder you should at the very least have an idea of the lowest price you would take.

Surely the breeder knows what he wants and trainers/bidders know what they can spend so start with the least the breeder will take and if no bid the horse goes home. If I bid the minimum and some other bidders bid on until the horse is knocked down to the highest bidder, it would be so much quicker and cleaner. gg, do you think every bid the auctioneer takes is legal and actually has someone bidding that wants to actually buy the horse?

Craig Eudey Wrote:

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> Surely the breeder knows what he wants and
> trainers/bidders know what they can spend so start
> with the least the breeder will take and if no bid
> the horse goes home. If I bid the minimum and some
> other bidders bid on until the horse is knocked
> down to the highest bidder, it would be so much
> quicker and cleaner. gg, do you think every bid
> the auctioneer takes is legal and actually has
> someone bidding that wants to actually buy the
> horse?

Craig , I hear that what you say and it is correct , BUT

Auctions is all about atmosphere . and you want to to involve as many as possible ,

also if the small buyer is left out and no chance to play , they loses interest .

on the other side good auctioneers know his buyers and can work on them to get more bids out of them .

Cat and mouse Great fun !!

gg, many of the small buyer are not even bothering to go to sales anymore. Rather buy off the farm where you can say that you have so much to spend and you get shown what is in that price range. Can haggle with the breeder. Less cost and time wasted. Count the trainers at some of these sales. Most used to go but now most don't.

Craig Eudey Wrote:

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> gg, many of the small buyer are not even bothering
> to go to sales anymore. Rather buy off the farm
> where you can say that you have so much to spend
> and you get shown what is in that price range. Can
> haggle with the breeder. Less cost and time
> wasted. Count the trainers at some of these sales.
> Most used to go but now most don't.


Craig , its happening in all livestock .

We buy and sell on our National sales , but 99% of our business is done off the farm ,direct less hassle and less commission .

The National sale is very important to promote your industry and your own stud and maybe your stable .

Craig Eudey Wrote:

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> gg, many of the small buyer are not even bothering
> to go to sales anymore. Rather buy off the farm
> where you can say that you have so much to spend
> and you get shown what is in that price range. Can
> haggle with the breeder. Less cost and time
> wasted. Count the trainers at some of these sales.
> Most used to go but now most don't.

Craig, you say that as if you going to teach those sales a lesson. But the truth is the gap between top and bottom, or first and last if you like, is growing. In the 80's, almost every one at least had a shot of running in the group races. Small trainers, small owners, unknown sires, home breeders. While it's not impossible, the occurrence is diminishing year by year. It's probably inevitable that smaller yards are increasingly less competitive because in the 80's a big yard was 80 horses, now double that is common and that has come at the expense of the diversity of smaller businesses.

If that is true, then the operators contribute to these facts in that they control the majority of the boxes and training facilities and their policies have a big effect in the outcome of this as years go by.

....time for my 2cents worth....there is a massive misconception of the term "well bred" and just because a top sire has been used to a top black type mare does not mean the result is champion.....one does not need deep pockets to buy competitive horses but if one does not know how to get decent horse flesh then it becomes purely a numbers game.....the more horses you have the bigger your chances of having something decent.....a particular example of what may be a decent specimen is the ZAR3 BAR Speightstown that Denis Drier bought.

This horse has imo a 50/50 chance of being something decent but the odds are a big gamble at the price.....this horse is heavily inbred to Storm Cat 3x3 and this mating has worked with one other of Speightstown progeny in the well performed Bridgetown....using this as a gauge gives one.... a one in 50 chance that the Storm Cat 3X3 will work again.....big ball's to have that type of wager.....:

Muhtiman Wrote:

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> ....time for my 2cents worth....there is a massive
> misconception of the term "well bred" and just
> because a top sire has been used to a top black
> type mare does not mean the result is
> champion.....one does not need deep pockets to buy

My 1 cents worth then. Well bred is in the eye of the beholder to a degree. And no mating can guarantee a champion.

But horses like Dynasty, Pocket Power, Jackson, Capetown Noir, Master Of My Fate, Variety Club were all close to the most expensive of their particular sale. Their sires are Fort Wood, Jet Master, Dynasty, Western Winter, Jet Master and Var respectively.

What that must mean is that we actually do know well bred to a large extent, and deep pockets is a definite advantage if you like well bred. I think the reason well bred can go for so much money is that at that point in the game one might think it better to buy the right one dearly than the runner up cheaply. I once carefully planned a mating for a horse who won a gr2 and placed in two gr1s...winning a gr1 would have been much much better.

for me it will be very interesting to see how many horse let us say in last 5 year that cost more than the million get the purchase price back. i will guess less than 1 in 20

Jack Dash.

My 1 cents worth then. Well bred is in the eye of the beholder to a degree. And no mating can guarantee a champion.


Yes, no mating guarantee's a champion . but certain mating have a better % chance of working .

Well bred is not in the eye of the beholder , wellbreed is a piece of paper that gives you the pedigree , it cannot lie .

Conformation is what the actual animal looks like and that is where top horsemen /woman can sort out the best from the
rest .


FH , over paying on a sale is common if there is 2 keen buyers .as long as you know your limit and the reason why you buying the animal !!

gg Wrote:

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> Yes, no mating guarantee's a champion . but
> certain mating have a better % chance of working
> .
> Well bred is not in the eye of the beholder ,
> wellbreed is a piece of paper that gives you the
> pedigree , it cannot lie .
>
I'm not sure that I agree that certain mating's do have a better % chance of working. I'm not sure we could even agree what "working" means. For eg you breed what you think is a cracker pedigree, it cant run but ends up awesome mare.

As for "well bred" being on paper for all to see, I don't know that is true either. I've heard many presenters and owners refer to horses as well bred that surprised me, sometimes shocked me. That's what i meant by in the eye of the beholder. Breeders are also often keen to tell you a horse is well bred because they thought so. I don't think it's all black and white like you assert.