If The Tote Was A Supermarket........

let me tell you the diference, yesterday harry take 3 banker and 3 almost fields in hes p6. i play the p6 at hollywood be cause is close to hospital where i get the dialysis. is clean. staff are friendly they want your business. so harry plays small only catch 19% for hes 300 rand. this pay out is more than 30 000 i am happy. i go past for collection. the lady ask me do i want cash or be cause it is so much fore safety maybe she must do the eft. she ask what bank and tell me the money is show immediate. so i ask for 10000 cash 23000 eft is no problem she do with the smile. beep beep go my phone the money is in. i get the 10000 with the smile and the lady have big smile and say well done that was a good bet. now a few month ago i win the pa it pay 2300 only. i go to the tote in meyerton to collect is after the 2nd race of day. the lady tell me sorry no money i will give you the voucher. i say no i cant do nothing with a voucher i play with cash i want cash. she tell me then i must wait for the punter to loose 2300 and she pay me. that day is kimberley there is may be 4 punters sitting there these can take the few hours. i ask her please can you even give me the cheque. she say the amount is to low for the cheque. i take these voucher be cause i have to i have no choice and i must ride with these to alberton on my time and petrol to go get money. their i get my money after the thousand questions why i come their. so you tell me what supermarket i never go again??

Sort of sums it up Harry.... except perhaps your 19% payout would have been 70k without the open bet... ok, you would have still been waiting for your money ...............

well summed up fh and madji 19 percent of 170k is around 30k which fh got paid out...

Flash Harry Wrote:

---

> let me tell you the diference, yesterday harry
> take 3 banker and 3 almost fields in hes p6. i
> play the p6 at hollywood be cause is close to
> hospital where i get the dialysis. is clean. staff
> are friendly they want your business. so harry
> plays small only catch 19% for hes 300 rand. this
> pay out is more than 30 000 i am happy. i go past
> for collection. the lady ask me do i want cash or
> be cause it is so much fore safety maybe she must
> do the eft. she ask what bank and tell me the
> money is show immediate. so i ask for 10000 cash
> 23000 eft is no problem she do with the smile.
> beep beep go my phone the money is in. i get the
> 10000 with the smile and the lady have big smile
> and say well done that was a good bet. now a few
> month ago i win the pa it pay 2300 only. i go to
> the tote in meyerton to collect is after the 2nd
> race of day. the lady tell me sorry no money i
> will give you the voucher. i say no i cant do
> nothing with a voucher i play with cash i want
> cash. she tell me then i must wait for the punter
> to loose 2300 and she pay me. that day is
> kimberley there is may be 4 punters sitting there
> these can take the few hours. i ask her please can
> you even give me the cheque. she say the amount is
> to low for the cheque. i take these voucher be
> cause i have to i have no choice and i must ride
> with these to alberton on my time and petrol to go
> get money. their i get my money after the thousand
> questions why i come their. so you tell me what
> supermarket i never go again??


Betxchange does not lead but follows - Today I went into the Benoni branch to attempt to withdraw the paltry sum of R3000 from my internet acc. I was told that internet withdrawals can only be done Monday to Friday BUT they can take my cash today if I want to deposit!! I was told the internet "people" only work Monday to Friday!! Seriously they have about 30 tellers there yet they can't train one to do a manual withdrawal (I did not want an eft or that I could have done on the net) - I do know bookies traditionally settle on Mondays but things have changed and so should betxchange - I would have waited half an hour at the Tote(if they had that amount in the safe) to withdraw from Telebet - HW takes about 10 mins but unfortunately Betxchange is 5mins from home while HW is 20 mins - Seems like I'll be driving that 20 mins in future.

So many long stories and we forget the simple, elementary fact of the matter - the bookies want to benefit and enrich themselves from the product which is racing, but they do not want to contribute or pay for the product. (Bookies pay 25% of the cost of the same chicken which the tote has to buy at full price, which gives the bookies such huge margins that they can have restaurants etc at their rooms.).

We have also forgotten what REAL bookies were, in the past. What we now have is one way traffic and limits, limits and restrictions and more restrictions from these wannabe bookies.

Is there many bookies getting paid like top 100 ceo or they getting paid like Supermarket Managers?

we have all seen the top earners salaries

Dear Louis,

Ponder on the following :

1.) Do you train horses for charity and/or to show a loss? Do you install security systems simply because you dreamed of doing so as a young boy? Does the operator run racing out of charitable intent?

You all have one thing in common - the profit motive! Not just bookmakers.

2.) Please direct me to any document, article or mission statement where it states that 'bookmakers do not want to contribute to racing'. Like any business - yourself included - they attempt to keep their overheads as low as possible to maximize profits. Knowing the kind of 'trouble' that racing is in do you send the operator a voluntary contribution to the stakes pool each month? Of course not. You will claim you are battling like the rest of us. And that's probably true.

3.) Another thought - have you ever had or engineered a big punt on a horse? If so - did you place it on the tote and consequently reduce your dividend to as low as R1 ? Or did you have it on the books? Be interesting to know.

Now consider this - how would YOU, Louis Goosen, react if I accused you of being merely someone who feeds off racing? And demanded that you, a racing professional, contribute 3% of your gross turnover ( not profit, mind you ) to Tellytrack if you continued to subscribe to the service? And why not? Both trainers and bookmakers make their living off racing so why should you get your picture cheaply!

I suggest you would do one of two things - Resist like hell and/or pass on the cost to your customers (ie owners)!

And P-L-E-A-S-E stop referring to the tote as if it was some kind of disadvantaged organization. It's not. But here's what it is :

a.) The Tote was set up as a funding mechanism for racing. As with any service provider - the offering needs to be attractive to draw custom. In some instances it is and in other instances it is not.

It is a basic law of commerce that if you are a big, lumbering, uncaring and inefficient operation somebody will spot the gap and offer a competitive service in a more attractive format. Precisely what bookmakers are now doing.

And bookmakers pay the AGREED amount in tax and operator levy.

You may be old enough to remember when the so-called betting tax was 12% and deemed by industry players (bookmakers and punters) to be grossly excessive and unfair. What happened? The rise of the bucket shop where we punted 'flat'. When the rate was halved to 6% the flow to the tax collector and sport was resumed.

So - beware of alienating punters who already enjoy 0% tax on sports betting and who have plenty of other betting opportunities. As your largely empty grandstands already mutely attest.

b.) Maybe the REAL problem lies in the fact that we now have a 'for profit' corporation with shareholders 'riding' the Tote - many of whom REALLY DO CONTRIBUTE NOTHING to racing other than accepting dividends. Why not picket the next AGM then?

It is positively naïve to believe that bookmaker turnover would default to the tote in the event of their demise. Much of that activity would simply be lost to other opportunities - sports betting, casinos and poker being the chief amongst them. All of which I note with amusement that you have not mentioned in your diatribe against bookmakers in racing.

I am simply a punter now but I have been all of owner, bookmaker, voluntary administrator and occasional writer for racing over the last 40 odd years. I place my bets solely on the basis of where I can get the best deal TO SUIT MYSELF. As I am sure does every other profit seeking punter. Most of those who bet on the Tote probably do so more because they don't actually understand the confiscatory costs of Tote betting or because they are availing themselves of the 'life changing' exotics on offer.

Garrick,

my points -
1) punt with whom you choose.
2)because we do not have the volumes and unlike the French or Hong Kong models, the tote pools will be vulnerable to big bets, which is elementary....or obvious. Govt has decreed, so be it.
3)but, to expect to contribute much less than the tote for the product is unfair practice and it must be stopped, one way or another. level the playing fields.
4)its really about choices for the Punter. Instead of moaning and groaning here, make the choice and enjoy.
5)It would be great for turnovers and stakes, if bookies were banned in racing. But that will never happen. Let it be. But, again, level the playing fields. Simple.

Now, as for Harry's experience at Hollywood, I agree - thats the way to go. My favourite place is at Hollywood in Durban, as it has been for years. These guys have taken service to another level !

But, I will always be opposed to the open bet and to unfair levels of input towards the sustainance of the product. And if these two are sorted, yes, the bookies are welcome to compete.

Because, yes, our big bets are through the bookies. Its obvious. And thats why they have so much cash on hand to pay out....

Remember who moans and groans about the open bet!!!!!.................it seems to boil down to some moaning and groaning is acceptable and some isn't ...................depends which side of the fence you are.
The one thing that is obviously surprising is, that if the open bet is so wrong as to be regarded by some as fraudulent, why is it that nobody with the power to make the changes,can be convinced of that?

Garrick Wrote:

---

> b.) Maybe the REAL problem lies in the fact that
> we now have a 'for profit' corporation with
> shareholders 'riding' the Tote - many of whom
> REALLY DO CONTRIBUTE NOTHING to racing other than
> accepting dividends. Why not picket the next AGM
> then?
>
>
>

All done on the back of horse racing with utmost bad faith. The don't give a fcuk about punters or horses or anyone else involved in the industry.
And now we are asked to eat crumbs and be grateful for it

On one of the other threads a clansman posted the annual turnover for sports and racing was I think R7.4 billion for last year. It didnt show the split between the tote and the bookies but lets assume the split is 40:60 respectively and lets assume the racing and sports split is 50:50 (which the report did show). If the institution shuts down the bookie supermarket then R2.2 billion would be lost to the industry forever. The tote supermarket only THINKS it will be rechannelled into the Tote. The bookie punters will NEVER EVER return to the tote.