INTERNATIONAL IS LEKKER AT PHUMELELA

pirates Wrote:

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PHUMELELA ARE
> THE ONES WHO ARE EXTREMELY WORRIED ABOUT LOCAL
> BETTING TURNOVER are they negative as well?

They have no power over the choice of where the punter wants to play...if you have a midweek Vaal meeting or a Ascot meeting to bet on Im sure the majority would choose Ascot...how can Phumelela be to blame for this

gregbucks Wrote:

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> Titch I admire your passion for local racing but
> please look at what MR H posted in red, surely you
> eventually cut the rot out before it infects the
> whole crop?? ... makes good business sense don't
> you think?


Does the soccer 6 and 10 along with the Rugby 5 form part of the local product??

Yes they do, but they not dragging the ship down are they...

titch local betting on horseracing with the tote is the major issue ...whether the racing is in south africa sweden america or england or the moon

pirates Wrote:

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> titch local betting on horseracing with the tote
> is the major issue ...whether the racing is in
> south africa sweden america or england or the moon


Im confused then with the heading INTERNATIONAL IS LEKKER AT PHUMELELA

even though phumelela is a listed company they are effectively private as their shares are hardly traded...the sa horse racing part of their business runs at a loss...without the overseas racing and soccer they would have to cut costs...the obvious being stakes and salaries...that would have been a disaster to sa racing...all of you that have a vested interested in horse racing are very lucky that the people that own the company shares understand the business and probably are very well off hence the non trading of the shares...if there were market forces at play they would never continue with a loss making division...they have been very smart to diversify and that might just be the saving grace for sa racing...remember phumelela is a GAMING group whose primary role is to create wealth for its shareholders...its not their fault that the whole gaming industry in sa is struggling...casinos have started retrenching

rob faux Wrote:

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> Alcaponee Wrote:
>

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>

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> > Greg that is where the focus and easy money is
> -
> > Far less expenditure required.
>
> That is my gripe in a
> nutshell...........shareholder returns and the
> future of local horseracing are in conflict!'
> Time for the people who rely on the local product
> to take it back and run it with a broader benefit
> in mind.

Rob - If I had to go all Napoleon on the world and the world allowed me to; there are two things I woud change.

1. Inflationary increase - If all business world wide stopped this practice bullsh1t growth would be a thing of the past and more stability could be found in world economies. Bigger numbers only stroke egos. Growth should be measured in extra units of services and goods sold exclusively.

2. As a knock on effect of point 1 above; this idea of playing with cyber money on markets where someone in a bad mood could cock up a market, may disappear. Most of these "Shareholders" / "Investors" are motivated by greed alone and the commodity and its problems are an unnecessary nuisance. Gone are the days of buying and selling the tangible. This cyber money trading (gambling) is crippling economies. Oil prices are a good example of my point. IMO Trading drives prices far more than supply and demand pressures. Greed exploits this area - they call it trading, what is it exactly that is being traded? These "investors" invest in numbers on a board, nothing tangible therefore they feel no responsibility to the industry being invested in!

I can hear the chorus, there should be no emotion in investment. My answer to that is that emotion is one thing, responsibility is another.

FC - Wish I had read your comment before I posted. It makes a nonsense of my point 2 above. If your comments are fact, then my point 2 above does not really apply to racing, if shares arent really being traded but on the other hand, those sitting with shares are getting paid consistantly; so happy days.

how can you have monopoly over a product and still fail to make a profit out of it..............

Spot on Ken.
Some months ago my comment was
"How piss poor does your management have to be if you can't monopolise a monopoly"

I still don't understand it to be honest.............imagine how amused the racing club of Mauritius must be to hear that we need to subsidise our local product..........how about outsourcing the entire local content to their management?

Alcaponee Wrote:

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> FC - Wish I had read your comment before I posted.
> It makes a nonsense of my point 2 above. If your
> comments are fact, then my point 2 above does not
> really apply to racing, if shares arent really
> being traded but on the other hand, those sitting
> with shares are getting paid consistantly; so
> happy days.


I will post the YTD trading numbers later but you cannot buy this share...i say again this company is performing very well for its shareholders...pity some posters here just dont get it...the signs are not good for sa racing...the CEO mentioned that weekend soccer betting is now equal to horse racing from a low base...this will only get worse and no amount of anything can change this...soccer punters are generally very young

FC - Volume of betting on Soccer is growing but how much of that pool is be drained out of those in the totes on a daily basis. Lets use the R20.00 a day punter as an example. Two bets on the horses and the third on soccer 6 as an example. On this assumption we can say a third of horseracing money is now on Soccer 6. I haven't even brought limited payout machines into the mix yet.

At the rate that soccer 4,6,10 is being promoted size of pools etc it is no wonder that horseracing is taking a nosedive. Pretty baseless assumption but there has to be a drain on racing. I doubt P could proove otherwise as I doubt they have properly surveyed regular punters punting habits. An off the cuff (eyeball and memory) survey in our local totes tells me that it the same old lot sitting there day in and day out splitting the punting budget between Horseracing, Soccer 4,6,10 and limited payout machines.

Net result is the punter is being drained of every possible cent the same way as it has always been but the difference now is the spend is being split over different medium. Does industry really believe that they can pull more out of this type of punter if they introduce limited payout machines in the totes? NO? They are just earning the same money through a different door. The pull to totes is horseracing. The sideshows, I doubt, are bringing too much new blood to the totes and the pools.

Again Soccer 4,6,10 and limited payouts are less expensive to run so it is the "logical" solution to promote this form of betting.Is it the best thing for the industry? Well the answer seems to be "this company is performing very well for its shareholders" and that is all that matters. It is a responsibility to shareholders who require maximum ROI vs responsibility to the sustainability of the racing industry.

Perhaps the solution could be found in; bonuses should be paid on improvements on horseracing only. It will never happen as this co is a gaming company and they will therefore shift to whatever form of gaming will yield the best results.

Bring in a horseracing only competitor and let P have the soccer, limited payout, overseas and other forms of gaming. The fact is everything else has followed the core business; Horseracing but from a pure business perspective "who cares about that, once they are in the door we will drain every cent and hopefully get the most out of the rand earned for the shareholders" by diverting attention to forms of gaming that cost less to run. Cant always blame the Open bet.